Chiomara

What elph said.

In the eyes of gender essentialists, should gender really depend solely upon external genitalia (rather than sex chromosomes, or their internal reproductive organs, things which none of us can know for sure about anyone else) even though there are people who have chromosomes and gonads which do not "match," making them intersex, despite having been declared to be male or female at birth based on their genitals? There are many different kinds of intersex conditions; there are people who might have both a vagina (so, externally, they'd appear to be a woman), breasts and testes. Some don't even learn until later in life that they're intersex, maybe not until getting their chromosomes tested. I don't imagine many of them should feel as though they're less of a man or woman solely because they learn they have different chromosomes than they thought.

I don't know, I just think we're a bit too obsessed with genitalia as a society, and it doesn't make sense to me that such a large part of one's identity should be dictated by (or forced upon us for our entire life, rather) a doctor who assigns it to us based on our genitals as infants before we even have any self-awareness.


I agree. There are better ways to diffuse tantrums and such. I can see why some think hitting a kid will be more immediately effective; it makes the kid afraid of you, and momentarily shocks them out of their tantrum or whatever. But that does not solve any actual behavioral problems. Children are just small humans with poor emotional regulation skills; of course they can be huge brats, but I don't think they should be hit for acting like children.

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djchameleon

Except for two things, one explaining what they did and why it is bad can still be done as a follow up after the spank. Two there is a certain age range where explaining doesn't even work. Explaining just gets ignored because they can't fully process that yet.

I agree with this quote

Spanking Can Be an Appropriate Form of Child Discipline | Time.com

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Paedantic Basterd

In terms of behavioural science research, corporal punishment is the least effective way to train a desired behaviour, so that should be reason enough to use other methods.

Personally speaking, I only remember getting smacked once, and although I won't say I "deserved it", I will say that I can understand it. Apart from that one incident (this was before kindergarten), my mother didn't even believe in grounding me for bad behaviour. We talked about why I wasn't supposed to do a thing and why it was better to behave differently.

Although I am not as capable an adult as I'd like to be, I turned out to be a hell of a responsible and conscientious one.

This is anecdotal, but it's an example that fits the research: Learning is best achieved when the punishment/reward are logically connected to the behaviour being trained. In my case, I learned that the effects of my behaviour on others is itself the punishment or reward, and that's where compassion and empathy begin.

EDIT: Afterthought. As much as I would (from time to time) really like to see adults get smacked for bad behaviour, we all acknowledge that this is unacceptable, so why is it alright to smack children? If anything, the adults should know better, so they're more deserving of a smacking tbh. Everyone is people.

Cuthbert

If you can explain why it's wrong then why smack them in the first place?

lol that's even worse. Hitting a child when they are so young they can't even understand language is just disturbing to me.

Paedantic Basterd

Actually, this raises a good point. A child that young is not going to understand the consequences of the behaviour--smacking them is not going to teach them how to not be a little **** and be a good adult, it's just going to teach them not to do one behaviour.

In fact research demonstrates that when you punish children with corporal punishment, it teaches them how to get around punishment in the future. That is, they find ways to hide the bad behaviour and do it anyways, because they don't understand that it's the consequences of the behaviour that are bad--they associate "bad" with getting caught.

Further, the greater the length of time that passes between the bad behaviour and the punishment, the less effective the punishment is. If you come home from work, your kid has painted on the walls, and you smack them hours after it happened, that's just ****ing confusing for them because the punishment is not temporally related to the behaviour.

Finally, kids are waaaaaaaay more cognizant than we give them credit for, even at two or three years old. Just talk to them like you'd talk to a grown-up. They're more likely to listen, they're more likely to learn something, and they've got a much bigger receptive understanding of the world than we give them credit for.

Chula Vista

Coming from a generation of children who were subject to mild corporal punshment I wholeheartily disagree.

Coming from a generation of children who were subject to mild corporal punshment I wholeheartily disagree.

Coming from a generation of children who were subject to mild corporal punshment I wholeheartily disagree.

Coming from a generation of children who were subject to mild corporal punshment I wholeheartily disagree.

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Frownland

**** science when you've got personal experience. You tell em chules.

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Cuthbert

mad ting

mad ting

mad ting

Chula Vista

For every research paper from the anti-spanking side there's one from the spanking does no harm and is not inherently bad.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1....138.3.197-222

__________________

“The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well,
on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away
and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”

Paedantic Basterd

Oh right, I forgot we're living in a post-fact world and that our emotions supersede science. Sorry! I'll be on my delusional way.