Your Day

The Batlord · 01-09-2021, 04:06 PM

Yeah sure he sounds like a college professor trying to impart esoteric knowledge you're not ready for but that he must prepare you for.

**Marie Monday** · 01-09-2021, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Have you ever listened to the guy?

I saw parts of that debate he did one time, that was more than enough

~~jwb~~ · 01-09-2021, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

I'm not talking about the internal consistency of his position but that his conscious approach to communicating his position was to dog whistle to people who'd be buying his books a basically naturalistic fallacy.

I can agree with that to an extent, like I said he is careful with his words but he positions himself as a centrist in a world that is shifting left so essentially he is trying to pitch a viable modern form of conservative reactionism without committing hismelf too much.

But there is a distinction to be drawn between pointing out that something might have a basic natural utility and that it exists for that reason rather than just as a an arbitrary social construct vs saying that because it's natural it's morally good. Case in point: the cartels use a very effective form of hierarchy. The utility of their hierarchical structure is self evident and very effective. That doesn't mean it's a morally good thing that they're doing. But the heirarchy exists because it works. The world is a cut throat place.

The Batlord · 01-09-2021, 04:21 PM

Religion exists because it works. But the contradictions between religion and society have grown and grown and grown because their is a central contradiction between faith and fact. I'd say there's a similar contradiction between hierarchy and freedom. The movement towards freedom grows and grows because there's no reason person A should magically be able to dictate to person B but the coordination possibilities of hierarchy grind against that basic idea.

~~jwb~~ · 01-09-2021, 04:24 PM

Religion is a much more recent invention and serves a much more niche purpose. I don't think that's an apt comparison at all.

@ OH if I find the video I'll post it but it was a long time ago. I just remember him saying that in a sort of off hand comment and it really rubbed me the wrong way.

**Marie Monday** · 01-09-2021, 04:27 PM

Dude I don't think for humans the purpose of religion is more niche at all. I think the comparison is apt insofar as the use of hierarchy and religion becomes obsolete if humankind progresses enough

OccultHawk · 01-09-2021, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie Monday

I saw parts of that debate he did one time, that was more than enough

He’s more straightforward when he’s teaching a class

I don’t have a particularly high opinion of him either though

**Marie Monday** · 01-09-2021, 04:30 PM

lol are you trying to convince me to watch jordan peterson?

OccultHawk · 01-09-2021, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie Monday

Dude I don't think for humans the purpose of religion is more niche at all. I think the comparison is apt insofar as the use of hierarchy and religion becomes obsolete if humankind progresses enough

Perhaps religion is a psychological defense mechanism against facing death. It may be true or almost true that there are no atheists in foxholes. Something about getting close to death triggers something that’s non-negotiable psychologically. At least it seems that way to me.

The Batlord · 01-09-2021, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

Religion is a much more recent invention and serves a much more niche purpose. I don't think that's an apt comparison at all.

I mean you're assuming that just because we don't have any dog Popes, but the psychological reasons "necessitating" religion could be just as far reaching but it would be rather hard to shake that psychology out of a dog or a flat worm since they can't speak to be interviewed.

I mean much of religion tends to be based on or governed by hierarchies and yet we tend towards less hierarchical religions the longer humans go on. Even the Pope is a hierarchical step down from a literal god-king. And we've trended away from Popes even.

To say that hierarchies are intrinsic to life is to say that human social development is doomed since we seem to be lumbering towards ever lower forms of hierarchy.

01-09-2021, 04:24 PM	#72075 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	Religion is a much more recent invention and serves a much more niche purpose. I don't think that's an apt comparison at all. @ OH if I find the video I'll post it but it was a long time ago. I just remember him saying that in a sort of off hand comment and it really rubbed me the wrong way.