Your Day

WWWP · 10-30-2020, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss

Yeah, because I disagree, gay people have been discriminated against and brutalized for a long time in all sorts of ways, everywhere in the world, and let's also remember that in half of the world, still to this day, it is illegal to be gay, punishable by prison and in some cases death. It's not illegal to be black in Malaysia, but I can't hold my boyfriend's hand in public here because I might end up in jail. I'd say that's pretty damn comparable.

Just a small taste of what's happening in the rest of the world:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ve-lesbian-sex

Great, are we getting closer to you acknowledging that your continued use of the f-word is douchebaggy?

1. Ok right so you could go to jail in Malaysia for holding your boyfriend's hand... so don't go to Malaysia. In America you can be killed as a man, woman, or child for existing in public in Black skin. For the millionth time please consider that your experience with systemic racism and actively upheld white supremacist beliefs even as a witness is extremely limited compared to Americans.

2. Who is we? I acknowledged it from the beginning. But I don't have to cater to your preferences so let's agree to disagree about what I'm allowed to say as a fully formed adult with a different life experience than you on a public forum. I know that word is very offensive to you, so I will never use it toward you or when engaged with you directly. That's simple. But I'm not going to make any kind of commitment that you will never see me say it again on the boards because clearly there are a lot of different ways to feel about a word and apparently there are regional/cultural responses to it as well.

But like omg you guys the world is ending lol ****ing relax

adidasss · 10-30-2020, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

Once again it's not just about which groups suffered more but the legacy of the specific slur

The f word has some recent dark history but nothing in comparison to the hundreds of years of systematic subjugation that is tied up with the n word. It literally harkens back to a time when an entire race of people were bought and sold as property and abused as if they were simple livestock. You just don't have the same sort of history with the f word. For one thing, gays were pretty much exclusively in the closet prior to very recent times. Not that that's a dignified role to have, but but black people never had that option. They were systematically enslaved by the millions and then later lynched by the thousands. Please cite comparable numbers of homophobic hate crimes during the same period before you proclaim it was "safer to be black than gay".

And the n word was literally always prevalent in the racism towards blacks in America. The f word is a much more recent slur with less baggage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violen...st_LGBT_people

Quote:

"An early law against sexual intercourse between men is recorded in Leviticus by the Hebrew people, prescribing the death penalty. A violent law regarding homosexual intercourse is prescribed in the Middle Assyrian Law Codes (1075 BCE), stating: "If a man lay with his neighbor, when they have prosecuted him (and) convicted him, they shall lie with him (and) turn him into a eunuch".

In the account given in Tacitus' Germania, the death penalty was reserved for two kinds of capital offenses: military treason or desertion was punished by hanging, and so was moral infamy (cowardice and homosexuality: ignavos et imbelles at corpore infames); Gordon translates corpore infames as "unnatural prostitutes"; Tacitus refers to male homosexuality, see David F. Greenberg, The construction of homosexuality, p. 242 f. Scholarship compares the later Germanic concept of Old Norse argr, Langobardic arga, which combines the meanings "effeminate, cowardly, homosexual", see Jaan Puhvel, 'Who were the Hittite hurkilas pesnes?' in: A. Etter (eds.), O-o-pe-ro-si (FS Risch), Walter de Gruyter, 1986, p. 154."

Laws and codes prohibiting homosexual practice were in force in Europe from the fourth[13] to the twentieth centuries, and Muslim countries have had similar laws from the beginnings of Islam in the seventh century up to and including the present day. Abbasid Baghdad, under the Caliph Al-Hadi (785–786), punished homosexuality with death.

If we're comparing the length of time discrimination and abuse lasted towards these two groups of people, homosexuals "win" easily since laws against, punishment and state sanctioned persecution of homosexuals has been going on for a few millennia and continues to this day (if we take just the US as an example, the last statutes which criminalized homosexual behavior were abolished less than 20 years ago).

If we're talking about the geographical extent of discrimination and abuse, not all black people were enslaved and not all countries had black slavery, as opposed to homosexuals which were by and large discriminated against and abused in most of the world (and continue to this day, including most of Africa).

If we're talking about the substance of the discrimination, black slaves were considered things, and thus valuable, they were not persecuted and exterminated for being black, unlike homosexuals who were considered less than things, an "abomination" and therefore not even worth existing.

We can also compare how many people are getting killed worldwide today for their race as opposed to their sexuality etc etc.

Is it the same? No. Is it comparable? In my opinion, very much yes.

But I would say even more importantly, which is something Lucem alluded to, is how something is perceived within a specific community towards which a certiain insult is aimed. The vast majority of gay men consider the f-word hurtful and very insulting. That should be enough for its discontinued use.

If you have a minimum of empathy that is.

adidasss · 10-30-2020, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WWWP

1. Ok right so you could go to jail in Malaysia for holding your boyfriend's hand... so don't go to Malaysia. In America you can be killed as a man, woman, or child for existing in public in Black skin.

Sure, what about gay Malaysians? Should they fuck off to some more liberal countries? And if we use the same logic, should I say that black Americans can fuck off to Africa?

Quote:

2. Who is we? I acknowledged it from the beginning. But I don't have to cater to your preferences so let's agree to disagree about what I'm allowed to say as a fully formed adult with a different life experience than you on a public forum. I know that word is very offensive to you, so I will never use it toward you or when engaged with you directly. That's simple. But I'm not going to make any kind of commitment that you will never see me say it again on the boards because clearly there are a lot of different ways to feel about a word and apparently there are regional/cultural responses to it as well.

Sure, because you're an insensitive douchebag.

Regardless of which, there should be clear rules set out on the forum and people who have higher standards of civility than you should enforce them.

WWWP · 10-30-2020, 11:02 PM

Lol ok

WWWP · 10-30-2020, 11:04 PM

Obviously I'm not saying **** the Magaysians I'm saying **** your victimhood

OccultHawk · 10-30-2020, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WWWP

Obviously I'm not saying **** the Magaysians I'm saying **** your victimhood

Honest to god I’m surprised you’re not pretending to be black instead of a lesbian

adidasss · 10-31-2020, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WWWP

Obviously I'm not saying **** the Magaysians I'm saying **** your victimhood

Mine specifically or gay men's in general?

Also, why?

OccultHawk · 10-31-2020, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss

Mine specifically or gay men's in general?

Also, why?

Americans refuse to acknowledge the suffering of and discrimination against homosexuals in Muslim countries for two reasons:

1) They’re right wing *******s that don’t give a **** if homosexuals live or die anywhere

2) They’re left wing *******s who refuse to believe Islam isn’t wonderful

WWWP · 10-31-2020, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Honest to god I’m surprised you’re not pretending to be black instead of a lesbian

As per usual I have no idea what your trying to communicate

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss

Mine specifically or gay men's in general?

Also, why?

Yours specifically bruh bc:

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss

Yeah, because I disagree, gay people have been discriminated against and brutalized for a long time in all sorts of ways, everywhere in the world, and let's also remember that in half of the world, still to this day, it is illegal to be gay, punishable by prison and in some cases death. It's not illegal to be black in Malaysia, but I can't hold my boyfriend's hand in public here because I might end up in jail. I'd say that's pretty damn comparable.

Like lol? Make it make sense.

WWWP · 10-31-2020, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Americans refuse to acknowledge the suffering of and discrimination against homosexuals in Muslim countries for two reasons:

1) They’re right wing *******s that don’t give a **** if homosexuals live or die anywhere

2) They’re left wing *******s who refuse to believe Islam isn’t wonderful