Your Day

ribbons · 10-29-2020, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie Monday

you're such a saint <3

Hardly, but thank you. I think YOU are, really! <3

I just don't like to see people being hurt, or to think I've inadvertently hurt someone.

OccultHawk · 10-29-2020, 12:28 PM

jftr some of the most maligned people are those with lower IQ’s or less education

others are socially awkward

perhaps you fall outside typical standards of beauty

maybe you can’t write very well

maybe you’re fat

maybe you’re cruel even

what ever the insult is there’s going to be a large group of people who live more difficult lives because of a shortcoming that inevitably comes from factors almost completely (I believe completely) but at least almost completely beyond one’s control

your intelligence your appearance your disposition all of it is combination of genetics and environmental factors

we have these forbidden terms but they’re culturally established based on trends and social clout

it’s not based on the disenfranchisement that comes with the trait

perhaps you’ll call someone a moron or an idiot and think that’s better than n igger or f aggot but (you’re awfully polite so I don’t really know just making an example)

but you wouldn’t be a physicist if your IQ was 85. And what kind of hardship would be inflicted on you if your IQ was 85? the fact that you’re smart is just luck of the draw

and if you worked hard the fact that you’re industrious is good fortune as well

if we’re going to be serious about this we really need to rethink how we use language altogether not just with how it aligns with our current ideas of what group is portrayed as marginalized

**Frownland** · 10-29-2020, 12:38 PM

Adapting your whole language system to avoid marginalizing people versus not insulting others

Both reasonable but I know which one is easier

**Marie Monday** · 10-29-2020, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

jftr some of the most maligned people are those with lower IQ’s or less education

others are socially awkward

perhaps you fall outside typical standards of beauty

maybe you can’t write very well

maybe you’re fat

maybe you’re cruel even

what ever the insult is there’s going to be a large group of people who live more difficult lives because of a shortcoming that inevitably comes from factors almost completely (I believe completely) but at least almost completely beyond one’s control

your intelligence your appearance your disposition all of it is combination of genetics and environmental factors

we have these forbidden terms but they’re culturally established based on trends and social clout

it’s not based on the disenfranchisement that comes with the trait

perhaps you’ll call someone a moron or an idiot and think that’s better than n igger or f aggot but (you’re awfully polite so I don’t really know just making an example)

but you wouldn’t be a physicist if your IQ was 85. And what kind of hardship would be inflicted on you if your IQ was 85? the fact that you’re smart is just luck of the draw

and if you worked hard the fact that you’re industrious is good fortune as well

if we’re going to be serious about this we really need to rethink how we use language altogether not just with how it aligns with our current ideas of what group is portrayed as marginalized

I think none of the examples you mention are sensitive on a level of sexuality or race, except for intellectual disability (not being ordinary dumb). I do object to using slurs about disabilities, even though I have used the word retard, which is mostly because I'm not aware enough that such words are in fact that kind of slur. And do the words moron and idiot really specifically apply to intellectually disabled people? I doubt that, but maybe that's my English lacking.
But actually I think I mostly use insults which also apply to myself, I think I do that subconsciously in order to make things less offensive. If I have been lucky about something I normally would't rub it in people's faces.
ps. I think you view me as way more polite and industrious than I am

OccultHawk · 10-29-2020, 12:43 PM

Every insult marginalizes ever person it applies to.

**Marie Monday** · 10-29-2020, 12:47 PM

sure, what's your point?

OccultHawk · 10-29-2020, 12:48 PM

Quote:

I think none of the examples you mention are sensitive on a level of sexuality or race, except for intellectual disability

That’s because there’s a language taboo.

Quote:

And do the words moron and idiot really specifically apply to intellectually disabled people?

Yes! It’s by implication saying smart people are more valuable than dumb people. Otherwise it wouldn’t be an insult.

**Frownland** · 10-29-2020, 12:50 PM

And valuable insinuates a capitalist mindset. Recognizing how smart someone is doesn't mean you're about to sell em.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie Monday

And do the words moron and idiot really specifically apply to intellectually disabled people? I doubt that, but maybe that's my English lacking.

It's quite anachronistic by now, but idiot was originally a medical term for the mentally disabled that became an insult, so not the best history there. Not sure about moron, that sounds like it could be named after a specific person tbh (which wouldn't be great either).

**Marie Monday** · 10-29-2020, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

That’s because there’s a language taboo.

no. it's because all the other things you mention have never been marginalised by law, and people haven't been systematically killed over it

Quote:

Yes! It’s by implication saying smart people are more valuable than dumb people. Otherwise it wouldn’t be an insult.

As I said, I was distinguishing between people who are just dumb (they have never been marginalised in the way I mention above) and people who are intellectually disabled. Are idiot and moron just calling someone dumb? Or is it specifically related to a disability?

OccultHawk · 10-29-2020, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie Monday

sure, what's your point?

My point is we pick and choose what insults are acceptable based on social norms not on how much pain they inflict on the disenfranchised. So really I’m not that impressed with people getting all outraged about the word n igger when the way they think about language tells me if the lived 60 years ago they’d be using it as a matter of course. Because it’s just following social norms not genuinely reflecting on what’s right and wrong.

I know this argument will likely get me nowhere because **** that makes people really look in the mirror rarely does.

10-29-2020, 12:28 PM	#70572 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	jftr some of the most maligned people are those with lower IQ’s or less education others are socially awkward perhaps you fall outside typical standards of beauty maybe you can’t write very well maybe you’re fat maybe you’re cruel even what ever the insult is there’s going to be a large group of people who live more difficult lives because of a shortcoming that inevitably comes from factors almost completely (I believe completely) but at least almost completely beyond one’s control your intelligence your appearance your disposition all of it is combination of genetics and environmental factors we have these forbidden terms but they’re culturally established based on trends and social clout it’s not based on the disenfranchisement that comes with the trait perhaps you’ll call someone a moron or an idiot and think that’s better than n igger or f aggot but (you’re awfully polite so I don’t really know just making an example) but you wouldn’t be a physicist if your IQ was 85. And what kind of hardship would be inflicted on you if your IQ was 85? the fact that you’re smart is just luck of the draw and if you worked hard the fact that you’re industrious is good fortune as well if we’re going to be serious about this we really need to rethink how we use language altogether not just with how it aligns with our current ideas of what group is portrayed as marginalized __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html

10-29-2020, 12:38 PM	#70573 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Adapting your whole language system to avoid marginalizing people versus not insulting others Both reasonable but I know which one is easier __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

10-29-2020, 12:43 PM	#70575 (permalink)
OccultHawk one-balled nipple jockey Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Dirty Souf Biatch Posts: 22,006	Every insult marginalizes ever person it applies to. __________________ 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Member of the Year & Journal of the Year Champion Behold the Writing of THE LEGEND: https://www.musicbanter.com/members-...p-lighter.html