Your Day

**Marie Monday** · 01-10-2021, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Then the living brain is thought. So thought is strictly material. It’s not just semantics. It’s the correction of a misunderstanding that is the cornerstone of psychology.

no, you're making the same mistake again: you think that if things correspond to the same thing physically they have to be the same thing, which is not true. Just like a numeral isn't a number, even though both can be represented by '1' for instance

OccultHawk · 01-10-2021, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WWWP

No one else can experience or truly witness your thought. It's not material.

With brain imaging with a high enough resolution they will be able to because it definitely is material. If it’s not material it’s either empty space or it doesn’t exist at all. Only nothingness is intangible.

**Marie Monday** · 01-10-2021, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

With brain imaging with a high enough resolution they will be able to because it definitely is material. If it’s not material it’s either empty space or it doesn’t exist at all. Only nothingness is intangible.

no, in that case they can not witness thoughts, they witness the things representing thoughts. Maybe they'll be able to read off the thoughts from the brain signals, which does not mean the thoughts are the brain signals. Just like I can read off the concept of the number one from the numeral '1', but they're not the same.

Another example: music is a phenomenon that is physically made up of sound waves, but music is not those sound waves. Conceptually it's more than that. That doesn't mean there's a mystical music ghost living in the sound waves

OccultHawk · 01-10-2021, 04:12 PM

Quote:

music is not those sound waves

Music absolutely is the sound waves and only the sound waves. And thoughts are those signals and as brain imaging improves that will become more and more apparent and at that point hopefully people will understand why this misunderstanding is devastating to the field of psychology as it’s practiced today.

Your numeral vs number analogy is much stronger and my best response is that it’s not applicable to the brain / mind dichotomy. I’m not going to call it a false equivalency or anything. I’m just going to admit I don’t have a good response to that one.

**Marie Monday** · 01-10-2021, 04:18 PM

Dude, there's no good response because it's true. Really.
Getting back to the music example, because it shows where your mistake lies and it's the easiest example to work with. Take this simple argument: there are sound waves which are not music. Therefore, they're a different thing. You might say that just means music is a type of sound wave, so another argument: some music can make you cry. If you deciphered soundwaves to find out what notes are being played without hearing it, you wouldn't cry. Physically music is only manifested by sound waves, conceptually it's a different thing.

~~jwb~~ · 01-10-2021, 04:20 PM

and you said I have perseverance. You're wasting your time Marie.

**Marie Monday** · 01-10-2021, 04:24 PM

my teacher mode randomly got activated, this is a fun challenge. I've never tried to explain something to someone as stubborn as Hawk

OccultHawk · 01-10-2021, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie Monday

Dude, there's no good response because it's true. Really.
Getting back to the music example, because it shows where your mistake lies and it's the easiest example to work with. Take this simple argument: there are sound waves which are not music. Therefore, they're a different thing. You might say that just means music is a type of sound wave, so another argument: some music can make you cry. If you deciphered soundwaves to find out what notes are being played without hearing it, you wouldn't cry. Physically music is only manifested by sound waves, conceptually it's a different thing.

To the individual, sound waves are only what your brain interprets them to be.

If I declare that every sound ever made and ever will be made is my composition then suddenly all sound becomes music. John Cage even turned silence into music.

**Marie Monday** · 01-10-2021, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

To the individual, sound waves are only what your brain interprets them to be.

If I declare that every sound ever made and ever will be made is my composition then suddenly all sound becomes music. John Cage even turned silence into music.

lmao that's a great example of why sound waves are not music

and about your first statement: the interpretation of something is not the thing itself. A sound wave is a sound wave; music is the interpretation of the sound wave.
All sounds can be music if you declare them so of course, but just like music, a sound is not a sound wave, but the interpretation of it

The Batlord · 01-10-2021, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WWWP

@Marie Exactly. That's what makes this all Cartesian nonsense. **** your mind/body problem, it's all chemicals and crossing wires. Go light another furnace, René pfffft.

OH is being intellectually dishonest, to what end I dont know. But it's exhausting.

I think he just needs to feel superior so he's gaslighting people to convince them they believe in something they don't.

01-10-2021, 04:20 PM	#73496 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	and you said I have perseverance. You're wasting your time Marie.