Your Day

~~jwb~~ · 01-09-2021, 05:24 PM

Religion is a much more recent invention and serves a much more niche purpose. I don't think that's an apt comparison at all.

@ OH if I find the video I'll post it but it was a long time ago. I just remember him saying that in a sort of off hand comment and it really rubbed me the wrong way.

**Marie Monday** · 01-09-2021, 05:27 PM

Dude I don't think for humans the purpose of religion is more niche at all. I think the comparison is apt insofar as the use of hierarchy and religion becomes obsolete if humankind progresses enough

OccultHawk · 01-09-2021, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie Monday

I saw parts of that debate he did one time, that was more than enough

He’s more straightforward when he’s teaching a class

I don’t have a particularly high opinion of him either though

**Marie Monday** · 01-09-2021, 05:30 PM

lol are you trying to convince me to watch jordan peterson?

OccultHawk · 01-09-2021, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie Monday

Dude I don't think for humans the purpose of religion is more niche at all. I think the comparison is apt insofar as the use of hierarchy and religion becomes obsolete if humankind progresses enough

Perhaps religion is a psychological defense mechanism against facing death. It may be true or almost true that there are no atheists in foxholes. Something about getting close to death triggers something that’s non-negotiable psychologically. At least it seems that way to me.

The Batlord · 01-09-2021, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

Religion is a much more recent invention and serves a much more niche purpose. I don't think that's an apt comparison at all.

I mean you're assuming that just because we don't have any dog Popes, but the psychological reasons "necessitating" religion could be just as far reaching but it would be rather hard to shake that psychology out of a dog or a flat worm since they can't speak to be interviewed.

I mean much of religion tends to be based on or governed by hierarchies and yet we tend towards less hierarchical religions the longer humans go on. Even the Pope is a hierarchical step down from a literal god-king. And we've trended away from Popes even.

To say that hierarchies are intrinsic to life is to say that human social development is doomed since we seem to be lumbering towards ever lower forms of hierarchy.

OccultHawk · 01-09-2021, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie Monday

lol are you trying to convince me to watch jordan peterson?

Idrgaf but if you’re interested enough to come to conclusions about what he’s talking about based on jwb’s take it just seems like why not just go to the source.

**Marie Monday** · 01-09-2021, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Perhaps religion is a psychological defense mechanism against facing death. It may be true or almost true that there are no atheists in foxholes. Something about getting close to death triggers something that’s non-negotiable psychologically. At least it seems that way to me.

no ****, originally religions (or supernatural/spiritual beliefs in general) are a way of facing death; organised religion has grown into something very different. Also, I think you're exaggerating: it is a very primitive way to deal with facing death, I think as humankind progresses we can handle it in a more mature way

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Idrgaf but if you’re interested enough to come to conclusions about what he’s talking about based on jwb’s take it just seems like why not just go to the source.

thanks but I'm really not tbh

The Batlord · 01-09-2021, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

Perhaps religion is a psychological defense mechanism against facing death. It may be true or almost true that there are no atheists in foxholes. Something about getting close to death triggers something that’s non-negotiable psychologically. At least it seems that way to me.

I don't think it's non-negotiable. I just think it's easy to land on a more comfortable idea and people will jump at comfort and that's a hard trend to stop. But the more comfort people have the less they "require" a religion even if it's still tempting.

~~jwb~~ · 01-09-2021, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie Monday

Dude I don't think for humans the purpose of religion is more niche at all. I think the comparison is apt insofar as the use of hierarchy and religion becomes obsolete if humankind progresses enough

Really? Religion isn't more niche than hierarchy? Religion itself uses hierarchical structures.

Religion hasn't even become obsolete, it's just less powerful than it once was. Specifically in the west and certain Asian countries. But vast swaths of the globe still live with religion dominating their lives to this day. And in the west, the basic need for spirituality remains part of the human condition and modernity has only shifted the way that we find outlets for that.

Hierarchy is even more entrenched and is applied to virtually every form of human organization and cooperation. The fact that it can pose problems doesn't mean it's obsolete. For it to be obsolete you need a viable alternative that can outcompete and outperform hierarchical structures. I'm
not sure that's even possible, but if it is we're a long way from it at this point.

01-09-2021, 05:24 PM	#73401 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	Religion is a much more recent invention and serves a much more niche purpose. I don't think that's an apt comparison at all. @ OH if I find the video I'll post it but it was a long time ago. I just remember him saying that in a sort of off hand comment and it really rubbed me the wrong way.