Your Day

~~jwb~~ · 10-29-2020, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

Thinking wealth correlates with intelligence is such a bourgeois concept.

thinking that being special needs or even just moderately unintelligent doesn't on average marginalize you in our current society is completely deluded lol

You're actually denying the impact that happens to a marginalized group and then calling your opponents elitist for not agreeing with you. Think about that for a second.

**Marie Monday** · 10-29-2020, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

There’s never been a surgeon with an IQ 85 or less. You can argue IQ doesn’t measure intelligence but it definitely measures a certain type of problem solving. Rich people aren’t more intelligent but having the sort of brain power that will get you around 120 plus IQ gives a person a ****ton more options. Other things can **** that up but there are still tons of things you cannot do no matter how hard you try if your IQ is below a certain point. And it’s just luck of the draw.

The entire idea of tying a person’s worth with any type of merit based system is cruel and bigoted. You throw the word stupid out there as an insult you’re saying that all stupid people are inherently worth less as human beings. Throughout the course of human history I’m sure stupid people as a whole have had it harder than black people.

I don't think anyone here would argue what you're saying about a merit-based system.
Regarding the worth thing: using stupidity as an insult just implies that it's something negative. I don't think that implies it makes someone worth less as a human being. For instance I think you're a deluded bigot about Muslims, which is definitely a negative thing, but I don't think you're worth less because of it. What does that even mean? People's worth shouldn't be measured in any way.
Saying that stupid people have had it harder than black people is just ridiculous to the point of being disrespectful. Wtf. Dumb people were never dehumanised to the extent of being made slaves. They were never lynched on trees. Seriously. That's exactly my point though (re:diswashing comment), why racial slurs are much worse than saying idiot: being less intelligent than average is a disadvantage, of course, but it's just not comparable (unless you really have a disability)

~~jwb~~ · 10-29-2020, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

ffs you teach physics

go wash dishes for a few years and then tell me the difference isn’t astronomical

Nah dude there's no difference in average intelligence between dish washers and physicists. Stop being bourgeois.

OccultHawk · 10-29-2020, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Dumb people were never dehumanised to the extent of being made slaves.

I’d argue they never weren’t

Lucem Ferre · 10-29-2020, 02:39 PM

I used to be a dishwasher and the physicist thinks I'm smart.

Lucem Ferre · 10-29-2020, 02:43 PM

I guess the moment you stop washing dishes for a living and start making more money your IQ magically raises.

It's not like we've ever had idiot politicians or idiot celebrities.

**Marie Monday** · 10-29-2020, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OccultHawk

I’d argue they never weren’t

If you're referring to the slavery of the average job, then that also applies to most smart people. But this is getting into too much unnecessary detail. Plain and simple I realise being unintelligent is a serious disadvantage, but dumb people have never been discriminated like black people were, not even close.

~~jwb~~ · 10-29-2020, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marie Monday

I don't think anyone here would argue what you're saying about a merit-based system.
Regarding the worth thing: using stupidity as an insult just implies that it's something negative. I don't think that implies it makes someone worth less as a human being. For instance I think you're a deluded bigot about Muslims, which is definitely a negative thing, but I don't think you're worth less because of it. What does that even mean? People's worth shouldn't be measured in any way.
Saying that stupid people have had it harder than black people is just ridiculous to the point of being disrespectful. Wtf. Dumb people were never dehumanised to the extent of being made slaves. They were never lynched on trees. Seriously. That's exactly my point though (re:diswashing comment), why racial slurs are much worse than saying idiot: being less intelligent than average is a disadvantage, of course, but it's just not comparable (unless you really have a disability)

I think there's a difference between saying they're not equivalent and saying they're not comparable.

I agree with you racial slurs are far worse because of not only the history but the tangible affects of that history on the modern context. While stupid people were never enslaved as a group, if you get into the realm of actual disability, I'm sure they weren't treated any better than a slave. Probably were just left to die at birth. That just doesn't have the same impact on our modern culture that slavery did.

But they are comparable in that both rely on group stigmas and stereotypes. I think it's a bit disingenuous to say I see stupidity as a negative thing but it doesn't make you worth less as a person. Would you take the same approach if someone said I see a man who isn't masculine enough as a negative thing but it doesn't make him worth less as a person?

I can tell you want this sort of distinction to be easy to draw but I believe it's more complicated than you assume.

~~jwb~~ · 10-29-2020, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

I guess the moment you stop washing dishes for a living and start making more money your IQ magically raises.

It's not like we've ever had idiot politicians or idiot celebrities.

You realize this means nothing right? We're talking about averages. Statistics. It's not a 1 to 1 correlation between IQ and wealth, but IQ is a relevant variable in predicting wealth.

Finding exceptions to a general statistical trend is not an argument against said trend.

**Marie Monday** · 10-29-2020, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

I think there's a difference between saying they're not equivalent and saying they're not comparable.

I agree with you racial slurs are far worse because of not only the history but the tangible affects of that history on the modern context. While stupid people were never enslaved as a group, if you get into the realm of actual disability, I'm sure they weren't treated any better than a slave. Probably were just left to die at birth. That just doesn't have the same impact on our modern culture that slavery did.

That's exactly why I made that distinction about disability before.

Quote:

But they are comparable in that both rely on group stigmas and stereotypes. I think it's a bit disingenuous to say I see stupidity as a negative thing but it doesn't make you worth less as a person. Would you take the same approach if someone said I see a man who isn't masculine enough as a negative thing but it doesn't make him worth less as a person?

I can tell you want this sort of distinction to be easy to draw but I believe it's more complicated than you assume.

I actually think I would, if they meant the same thing as I do. It depends on what you mean by a person's worth though; I won't pretend I never look down on stupid people. I do agree with your general point, there isn't a clear line, it's more subtle than my posts here give credit for.