Your Day

~~jwb~~ · 02-08-2020, 06:58 PM

You always hide behind vagaries instead of making a real point. Maybe it's a problem with abstract thinking.

And lol @ "neoliberal mods" you non-thinking buzzword-repeating hayseed.

The Batlord · 02-08-2020, 07:00 PM

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Originally Posted by jwb

You always hide behind vagaries instead of making a real point. Maybe it's a problem with abstract thinking.

From someone who obfuscates with specifics to prevent uncomfortable comparisons that doesn't mean much.

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And lol @ "neoliberal mods" you non-thinking buzzword-repeating hayseed.

I see someone can't pick up on tongue-in-cheek.

~~jwb~~ · 02-08-2020, 07:07 PM

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Originally Posted by The Batlord

From someone who obfuscates with specifics to prevent uncomfortable comparisons that doesn't mean much.

well when you call me a Holocaust denier you should either be able to find at least one example of something I'm denying or being ahistorical about or else find a better analogy. I don't think that's being too pedantic... You're just once again misusing a term.

**Frownland** · 02-08-2020, 07:16 PM

The Batlord · 02-08-2020, 07:19 PM

No you are being pedantic. You wouldn't deny the Jewish Holocaust in the same way you would the Native American Holocaust because they are two different historical occurrences with two different histories. The Jewish Holocaust is so obvious and still fresh that one simply has to be a conspiracy theorist to deny it, whereas the Native American Holocaust started as an accident, so you can throw that up to trivialize the entire thing to begin with (which you did), and wasn't a centralized plan so you can be vague about what you consider to be genocide and what was just unfortunate history or just gloss over the whole damn thing since the specifics aren't common knowledge to most people even in America (you so far have chosen to gloss over while not being so stupid as to pretend nothing happened but since going down the specifics rabbit hole would mean pages upon pages of potential obfuscation that nobody casually posting on an internet forum wants to go down you still leave yourself open to be vague about what's genocide and what's just embarrassing but still forgivable as a country).

The Batlord · 02-08-2020, 07:19 PM

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Originally Posted by Frownland

Exactly.

~~jwb~~ · 02-08-2020, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

No you are being pedantic. You wouldn't deny the Jewish Holocaust in the same way you would the Native American Holocaust because they are two different historical occurrences with two different histories.

in both cases it would involve actually denying the genocide or some aspect of it, otherwise denier is simply the wrong charge to make.

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The Jewish Holocaust is so obvious and still fresh that one simply has to be a conspiracy theorist to deny it, whereas the Native American Holocaust started as an accident, so you can throw that up to trivialize the entire thing to begin with (which you did), and wasn't a centralized plan so you can be vague about what you consider to be genocide and what was just unfortunate history or just gloss over the whole damn thing since the specifics aren't common knowledge to most people even in America (you so far have chosen to gloss over while not being so stupid as to pretend nothing happened but since going down the specifics rabbit hole would mean pages upon pages of potential obfuscation that nobody casually posting on an internet forum wants to go down you still leave yourself open to be vague about what's genocide and what's just embarrassing but still forgivable as a country).

I didn't say it started as an accident, only that the vast majority of the body count was through the spread of disease. That's a relevant fact to me in judging the scale of the genocide, not whether there was a genocide. I brought it up because many people don't know that and most people speak as if it's not true. I think you see it as trivializing because you recognize instinctively that people catching diseases doesn't look as nefarious as rape and pillage, and you would just assume gloss over anything that has that affect.

The Batlord · 02-08-2020, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb

in both cases it would involve actually denying the genocide or some aspect of it, otherwise denier is simply the wrong charge to make.

No, since the ultimate objective is the same. To cast off moral responsibility so that your respective cultures can retain pride and moral high ground. You are in fact the American version of a German Holocaust denier.

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I didn't say it started as an accident, only that the vast majority of the body count was through the spread of disease.

Literally makes no difference unless Europeans sailed to the Americas specifically to spread disease.

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That's a relevant fact to me in judging the scale of the genocide, not whether there was a genocide. I brought it up because many people don't know that and most people speak as if it's not true. I think you see it as trivializing because you recognize instinctively that people catching diseases doesn't look as nefarious as rape and pillage, and you would just assume gloss over anything that has that affect.

When you brazenly open the entire discussion with "I'm done being guilty about" you are most definitely trivializing. Especially when you make no attempt to asterisk your point by explaining what Europeans actually are guilty of and what you think that means concerning the history of the Americas and the United States.

I mean as if you don't know exactly what you're doing.

~~jwb~~ · 02-09-2020, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

No, since the ultimate objective is the same. To cast off moral responsibility so that your respective cultures can retain pride and moral high ground. You are in fact the American version of a German Holocaust denier.

except being a "denier" isn't the only way to "cast off moral responsibility," it's one particular method that specifically involves revisionist history.

Truth be told, I don't care about "moral high ground" on a national level. This country has plenty of sins. I think it's a gross exaggeration that it's somehow worse than Nazi Germany, but yea.

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When you brazenly open the entire discussion with "I'm done being guilty about" you are most definitely trivializing.

actually I said "I'm done crying for...." and the reason given was that they were "wasting the continent."

Yes that comment was trivializing and was intended as such. It wasn't intended 100% seriously though.

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Especially when you make no attempt to asterisk your point by explaining what Europeans actually are guilty of and what you think that means concerning the history of the Americas and the United States.

actually I did at one point make the distinction that obviously the raping, pillaging, and other forms of overt violence and intentional displacement wasn't justified.

**Marie Monday** · 02-09-2020, 05:25 AM

Cut it out already; this discussion isn't going anywhere, you're not making any good points, and I assume you're trolling. Also, to you and Bat: stop calling each other Hitler fanboys or fascists; it's childish and doesn't help your arguments

02-08-2020, 07:16 PM	#67454 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	__________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

02-08-2020, 06:58 PM	#67451 (permalink)
~~jwb~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 4,403	You always hide behind vagaries instead of making a real point. Maybe it's a problem with abstract thinking. And lol @ "neoliberal mods" you non-thinking buzzword-repeating hayseed.