Fair enough, I can see how the proximity with Ant's posts (which I didn't really read) would seem to put me in that camp. For the record, I don't buy the whole "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" narrative.

Think again, I'm working a not-quite mininum-wage job full time right now. And also in college. :p:

EDIT: Nice to see you have your proper name back btw.

I don't believe in pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. I believe it's better to work smarter, not harder. Turn a problem around enough in your head and map out what it's going to take to actually make even an inch of progress. And with all the **** we have access to online and just a little forethought, making good connections that lead to better jobs, better quality of life, etc. isn't as soul crushingly difficult as it was in the past when you had to drive around everywhere just to get your name out there. And with limited information, it could take you days just to figure out where to spend your time. As opposed to now, when I can hop onto Meetup or Facebook or wherever else and figure out what's happening in my area in like 5 minutes.

If your putting out effort, then nobody should fault you for it. Nothing is a waste. And if your that beaten down by life, that's fine. But don't you tell me that trying to build better relationships or showing up doesn't make a difference, because I'm living it right now and nobody just handed it to me. I had to seek it out and got plenty of rejection along the way. Nobody handed me a sack of money and said "here you go". I had to start by building new relationships, and between job hopping and finding better ways to network, it took me well over six years.

The hilarious (and amazing) thing about people is that there are some folks out there who had it worse than all you guys combined and still managed to build recurring 6 figure revenue streams off stuff like Isagenix through sheer force of will. And that's literally the ****tiest business model out there. I wouldn't do it at gunpoint. :laughing:

Maybe John is at the wrong job.

Everyone who has a pot to piss in thinks they earned it.

And for the love of God. Please, PLEASE, really please stop mentioning Facebook. FFS stop.

And just to change the narrative, when **** went my way, and I was walking around big Asian cities with hundreds of dollars in my pocket and eating expensive ass meals and drinking 18 year old scotch I didn’t earn ****. It just ****ing rolls one way or the other. When **** is rolling your way instead of patting yourself on the back why not have some humility and think man I could be on the wrong side of all this? Ever since I went to India and Bangladesh and saw little kids starving and leprosy and all that I knew I had nothing to do with any part what I was doing except that I was cog in the oppression that was the poverty of all the dying in front of me. I’m sorry but it’s like that. And btw if you have money someone DID give it to you. No one earns ****.

@Frown 6 Common Traits of Narcissists and Gaslighters


These kinds of discussions are why I think it would be better if more people believed in "something". Cause taken all on its own (if you don't believe in something) I don't find that kind of moralizing to be compelling. Why even care about the planet or random kids in another part of the world if I'm just going to die a miserable death someday? It just isn't relevant when my own life is already complicated as it is. I came out of extreme poverty in the U.S. and no rich guy from India flew over and helped me or anyone I know. Anything good that has ever happened in my life only happened because I changed the way I did something when I knew nothing. But the vast majority of humans don't think that way: they look at something like capitalism and despair like its their responsibility and it really isn't. If you were born centuries ago you wouldn't have been able to do jack **** about your Lord if you were some serf or if a bunch of Vikings decided to pillage your little town if you grew up in an even earlier era.

My point is, you choose what's important to you and what you want to fight for. You became demoralized from what you've seen and experienced over a long period of time. I've seen much of the same and came to different conclusions. People could look at what we do and learn from both approaches.

Noice. You should record something wonky and price it at like $2000 per song. You'd make Bandcamp news out of sheer novelty.

Thanks bro