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Old 07-25-2019, 09:10 PM   #63291 (permalink)
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If you're conceding that choices make a difference then it's fundamentally irrational to act as if you live in some deterministic paradigm. You're not confronting the implications of your concession.
Not really. You're not necessarily talking about making choices so much as just doing things. That's perfectly congruent with a deterministic universe.
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There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 07-25-2019, 09:11 PM   #63292 (permalink)
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then FURTHERMORE

your social class will determine how badly that poor financial decision hurts

quite honestly I would be fine, my mommy would send me money
in that case, why do you bother?
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Old 07-25-2019, 09:13 PM   #63293 (permalink)
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in that case, why do you bother?
In a deterministic universe you bother because it's your nature to bother. If we're living in a deterministic universe then we're living in a society with a long line of bothering for no other reason than because it is in our nature to bother.
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Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 07-25-2019, 09:16 PM   #63294 (permalink)
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Not really. You're not necessarily talking about making choices so much as just doing things. That's perfectly congruent with a deterministic universe.
he already conceded the point specifically about making choices, as I said.

And even in a more abstract sense if you think we aren't in control of our choices for some philosophical reason, if you agree that for instance my choice to smoke crack vs not smoking crack will impact my life, you are agreeing that what I decide to do ultimately matters. Even if somehow my decision is predetermined. Which would render not only personal choice but political choice utterly irrelevant.
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Old 07-25-2019, 09:18 PM   #63295 (permalink)
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In a deterministic universe you bother because it's your nature to bother. If we're living in a deterministic universe then we're living in a society with a long line of bothering for no other reason than because it is in our nature to bother.
if that's the case then that should be your answer to everything

Yet you guys rationalize most of your decisions via other means.
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Old 07-25-2019, 09:19 PM   #63296 (permalink)
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he already conceded the point specifically about making choices, as I said.

And even in a more abstract sense if you think we aren't in control of our choices for some philosophical reason, if you agree that for instance my choice to smoke crack vs not smoking crack will impact my life, you are agreeing that what I decide to do ultimately matters. Even if somehow my decision is predetermined. Which would render not only personal choice but political choice utterly irrelevant.
If choice is irrelevant then it does not matter. And yeah I'm not really talking about the previous subject anymore. This is poised to be totes yet another circular discussion on compatibilist vs incompatibilist free will that's happened in the last few months.
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Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
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Old 07-25-2019, 09:22 PM   #63297 (permalink)
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what determines your ability to make a delayed gratification choice?

if everyone is capable, why is it that some people do, and others don't?
some are definitely more predisposed to than others. But ultimately it's the same reason some kill and some don't. Some steal and some don't. There's a complex set of mental states behind any given decision.
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Old 07-25-2019, 09:24 PM   #63298 (permalink)
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what determines your ability to make a delayed gratification choice?

if everyone is capable, why is it that some people do, and others don't?
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me, personally?

because of the way I was raised

asking anyone for help ever is like the most painful thing for me
so you don't feel that you could give up and lean on Mom, even if you wanted
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Old 07-25-2019, 09:26 PM   #63299 (permalink)
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If choice is irrelevant then it does not matter. And yeah I'm not really talking about the previous subject anymore. This is poised to be totes yet another circular discussion on compatibilist vs incompatibilist free will that's happened in the last few months.
If choice is irrelevant than none of this matters. Not my thoughts on personal choice and not your thoughts on the system or political choice. We should all just shut up, roll over, and wait to die.
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Old 07-25-2019, 09:27 PM   #63300 (permalink)
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well exactly
more disposed =/ determined

Choice is relevant even for the more disposed.
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