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Old 06-20-2019, 01:40 AM   #62471 (permalink)
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don't mind me just dropping this off real quick

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Old 06-20-2019, 01:45 AM   #62472 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre View Post
The ability to determine an outcome? When faced with two or more possible outcomes you have the ability to choose?

It's there, nothing else to explain.
But you don't have the ability to choose. The outcome is predetermined. Or random. Whatever. Anyway, the freedom of choice is an illusion.
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Old 06-20-2019, 01:56 AM   #62473 (permalink)
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But you don't have the ability to choose. The outcome is predetermined. Or random. Whatever. Anyway, the freedom of choice is an illusion.
You don't know that and there is no evidence that indefinitely proves that.

Either way, at least we're on the same page acknowledging that free will actually does have meaning.

Just because you think It's impossible or isn't congruent with the way the world works, doesn't mean the concept has no meaning. So lets quit with that nonsensical bull****.

Either way, can you explain why you believe that we don't determine outcomes? I'm not going to knock this belief, for the record. There is plenty of justification for believing this. I'm just knocking the idea that you know as if it's proven. Let's not fall back on the cause and effect thing because I already proved that it relies on the cause and effect relationship to exist.
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Lucem, you're right, it's silly to talk about what I would or wouldn't do IRL. Glad you brought it up. Maybe you should write an instrumental about it. I recommend a piano paired with a clarinet. With ambient sounds of you hanging from your shower curtain you ****ing failure.

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Old 06-20-2019, 01:59 AM   #62474 (permalink)
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Let me ask it in a different way: This supposed free will, what is it free from?
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Old 06-20-2019, 02:09 AM   #62475 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by grindy View Post
Let me ask it in a different way: This supposed free will, what is it free from?
Good question.

Freedom implies having the option.

There's always limitations but the options still exist.

It's free from unconsciousness.


Consciousness gives us the options to react differently to reach a desired outcome.

Edit: In theory. I have to leave this here because I don't know and I never took a hard stance for or against.
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Lucem, you're right, it's silly to talk about what I would or wouldn't do IRL. Glad you brought it up. Maybe you should write an instrumental about it. I recommend a piano paired with a clarinet. With ambient sounds of you hanging from your shower curtain you ****ing failure.

Art Is Dead. Buy My ****.
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Old 06-20-2019, 02:19 AM   #62476 (permalink)
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also had a drunken conversation with a guy where for some reason I was trying to explain to him what an E-bow is and he got off on a tangent about how I have a charisma that I waste
Drunken people have a bad habit of saying these things to people they hardly know.
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Lucem, you're right, it's silly to talk about what I would or wouldn't do IRL. Glad you brought it up. Maybe you should write an instrumental about it. I recommend a piano paired with a clarinet. With ambient sounds of you hanging from your shower curtain you ****ing failure.

Art Is Dead. Buy My ****.
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Old 06-20-2019, 02:45 AM   #62477 (permalink)
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sure that was part of the lol

I also started the day playing golf with my bourgeois Dad for my Birthday

well TopGolf, it's not really that similar, I won having never played Golf in my life
Oh, well happy birthday, elph.
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Lucem, you're right, it's silly to talk about what I would or wouldn't do IRL. Glad you brought it up. Maybe you should write an instrumental about it. I recommend a piano paired with a clarinet. With ambient sounds of you hanging from your shower curtain you ****ing failure.

Art Is Dead. Buy My ****.
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Old 06-20-2019, 03:23 AM   #62478 (permalink)
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Happy birthday, elph!
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Old 06-20-2019, 05:58 AM   #62479 (permalink)
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Then had to put $3,500 into my car for an oil leak
That looks like an unusually high amount just to repair an oil leak. If I went to an auto repair shop with an oil leak (after first checking the oil filter and drain plug to see if they were just loose and only needed tightening) and they quoted me a price like that, I'd go and get a second and maybe a third opinion from one or two other repair shops (not a dealer, though, as they always charge much more for everything than a typical repair shop.)

I would expect to pay $3,000 to $4,000 for a complete, engine replacement for a typical car at a non-dealer repair shop.
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A middle class job sounds like a boring menu option at a brothel

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Old 06-20-2019, 06:03 AM   #62480 (permalink)
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That looks like an unusually high amount just to repair an oil leak.
I'd be like
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