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Old 06-18-2019, 08:39 PM   #62371 (permalink)
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I'm waiting til the conversation turns towards Descartes before I jump in.
Then jump in because Descartes and Nagel are all over this.
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:48 PM   #62372 (permalink)
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The same argument is made for God and you still take that off of the table.

The same argument has been made for free will and you still take that off of the table.
Yeah you’re right. God is to me what William James called a dead hypothesis. Free will is off the table because it’s impossible. Panpsychism remains on the table for me because I believe both matter and consciousness are real. That’s enough to get me from atheistic to barely agnostic on it.

Again though, you make a valid point that I’m a little more forgiving of the unlikelihood of panpsychism. It’s not exactly the same but it is really ****ing close.
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:51 PM   #62373 (permalink)
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Free will is off the table because it’s impossible. I believe.
how ****ing stupid can you be?
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:51 PM   #62374 (permalink)
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Do pool balls have brains? I'm sorry. I haven't been keeping up with the conversation enough to really contribute.
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:58 PM   #62375 (permalink)
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Yeah you’re right. God is to me what William James called a dead hypothesis. Free will is off the table because it’s impossible. Panpsychism remains on the table for me because I believe both matter and consciousness are real. That’s enough to get me from atheistic to barely agnostic on it.

Again though, you make a valid point that I’m a little more forgiving of the unlikelihood of panpsychism. It’s not exactly the same but it is really ****ing close.
It's exactly the same because both theism and panpsychism rely on a lack of information for validity.

The rejection of free will is because you don't think choice can be congruent with influence.

Edit: I'd argue that choice is dependent on influence.
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:06 PM   #62376 (permalink)
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It's exactly the same because both theism and panpsychism rely on a lack of information for validity.
Similar but not exactly the same like I said.

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The rejection of free will is because you don't think choice can be congruent with influence.
Not just influence but direct cause and effect.
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:14 PM   #62377 (permalink)
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Similar but not exactly the same like I said.



Not just influence but direct cause and effect.
Choice would be a more complicated version of cause and effect where the cause is the information gathered by awareness and the effect is how we react in anticipation for the future.
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Lucem, you're right, it's silly to talk about what I would or wouldn't do IRL. Glad you brought it up. Maybe you should write an instrumental about it. I recommend a piano paired with a clarinet. With ambient sounds of you hanging from your shower curtain you ****ing failure.

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Old 06-18-2019, 09:17 PM   #62378 (permalink)
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All there can be is cause and effect
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:17 PM   #62379 (permalink)
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All there can be is cause and effect
I just gave you an example of choice being cause and effect.
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Lucem, you're right, it's silly to talk about what I would or wouldn't do IRL. Glad you brought it up. Maybe you should write an instrumental about it. I recommend a piano paired with a clarinet. With ambient sounds of you hanging from your shower curtain you ****ing failure.

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Old 06-18-2019, 09:19 PM   #62380 (permalink)
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There’s no such thing as choice
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