Originally Posted by Zhanteimi

shut up

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

Captain America probably hates minorities. His character, at least in the MCU but I don't think I'm wrong in assuming it's the same in the comics, is meant to appeal to conservative America. A heterosexual straight white male dressed in nationalist American flag garb and shoving the blind altruist ideas of self sacrifice for your country down people's throats. His whole battle with iron man is meant to parallel things like guns rights, putting him on the libertarian, america loving, right wing side. It's even essentially taking a stance against gun rights by implying that Tony was wrong this whole time. In reality, while I can agree that Cap's intentions have always come off as good, I'd argue that he's really just a blind chess piece living out his patriot fantasies with out second guessing his actions and his altruistic nature is reflective of what he's been told is a hero the whole time. Ironman isn't exactly wrong in wanting to have a bit more control on making sure heroes act responsibly to reduce the casualties. Where he gets it wrong is by putting it in the hands of the American government which will predictably abuse it. Look at how ****ty we handle our military, we don't truly give a **** about casualties. So I can't side with Ironman's cause because it was too impulsive, but as a hero I'd have to side with him because he's much more intelligent, he's much more thoughtful, and he's much easier to relate to since he doesn't expect everybody to have a martyr fetish to be considered a hero even though he himself is willing to be the martyr if there is absolutely no other way. I don't think he has a power fetish, I think he resents the power he has because he hates feeling the weight of the responsibilities it puts on his shoulders.

Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien

There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.

Originally Posted by Dharma & Greg

**** off. The reason Cap is a character who's loved by everybody, even non-Americans, is because he's somebody who embodies everything that America should be about. And what America is about is ultimately what every country is about. Everyone is the same. Everyone wants truth, everyone wants honesty everyone wants someone who stands up for what they believe in even when that isn't convenient. That is the corniest of what superheroes are but that is why Cap speaks to people. That is why Superman speaks to people.

That's why Civil War was Cap's third movie, cause Cap doesn't stand for authoritarianism. America isn't supposed to stand for authoritarianism, but everyone with a brain knows it does, and that's why Cap was the very first one to stand up and say something about it. Cap is the one to stand for what America should stand for, and when America doesn't stand for it Cap is the one who stands up and says something FIRST. Because Cap doesn't stand for jingoism. Cap stands for integrity.

Tony Stark is a control freak who is obsessed with fixing everything that is wrong, whether that be inventing an AI that controls the world or believing that he can control the UN's rules about superheroes and what they can and can not do. Cap doesn't know whether or not that can work, but he does know that one day a situation will arise that will mean that he will have to choose between doing something and watching someone die if that means giving his agency to a government agency, and he can't accept that because when that days comes he will ignore the government and save that person.

Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien

There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

No, no, Cap is the equivalent of Vince McMahon creating the intercontinental championship. He knows nationalism gets a cheap pop so he creates story lines around that. Cap is no different and was essentially created as propaganda. He is inhumanely 'perfect' and in that sense lacks any kind of character or character development that'd make him interesting. More or less he comes off as smarmy and self assured in believing that he's always doing the right thing where Ironman knows that he's flawed behind all of his bumptious posturing. The idea of 'perfection' in somebody who is a stereotypically nationalist and right wing is purely propaganda. He's meant to appeal to the right in the same exact way that Black Panther was meant to appeal to the left. In all honesty, as much as I prefer Tony because of his character being much more interesting, real and honest I can't side with either because they both are reflective of American issues. Cap being the self righteous patriotic culture of America that lives to serve as a symbol of heroism with out second guessing it until the evil liberals come for their guns (which is exactly the same point cap is trying to make) and Ironman being the image of the spoiled 1% who can hide behind their wealth and status to get away with anything along with being a representation of the evils of corporatism having too much control over policy. I'll ride with Cap when it comes to the civil war, but over all I'm siding neither and rooting for Spiderman for being the hero above both.

Originally Posted by Blank.

Wha... what? That's not the purpose of the Intercontinental belt... The Intercontinental belt has had those story lines but it's usually just the prize they give to the workhorses.

Also, Captain America is about freedom. You know that thing Americans constantly say they have. That's the whole point of his character. Standing up for freedom. Anything beyond that simple idea and you're tacking on what you think of America onto Cap.

Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien

There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.

Originally Posted by grindy

Freedom is racist.

Also: Chill out, everybody.

Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien

There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.