Your Day

Lucem Ferre · 03-29-2019, 11:25 AM

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Originally Posted by Anteater

If you weren't so busy projecting bad faith arguments, maybe you'd come up with something better than "anyone who makes me mad must be a Nazi". My analogy about heavy metal appears to have been right on the money.

I never called you a Nazi though.

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You can't even acknowledge how hierarchies work and why we have them.

I can I'm just not going to defend them as human nature because plenty of social standards that we've grown to adapt to have completely gone against human nature. I believe in progress not excuses to maintain the same ****ty status.

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Even addressing that fundamental fact of life constitutes "fear mongering" to you, demonstrating that you can't stomach a discussion about said issues.

I never called it fear mongering. At all. It was actually you who called the outrage of majority biases fear mongering.

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If you thought it was disrespectful then your just a big meaniepoo.

You blatantly calling the outrage towards America's white biases fear mongering combined with your unprovoked "what about radical islam?" in the face of outrage towards a mosque shooting was disrespectful and obviously not a part of your satire. Just as you shoving words into my mouth based on your simple minded assumptions.

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I dunno why you'd bring racism into a discussion that ultimately has nothing to do with individuals and their respective races, especially when it was clear I was joking about "race wars" and yaks and having some fun with hyperbole.

I didn't address your hyperbole after you pointed out it was hyperbole. I initially addressed your stupid heavy metal comparison.

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I've brought up liberal-oriented solutions to these problems before (seeing as I support a big chunk of both Yang and Buttigieg's platforms): you just have a short attention span or you missed the point of the argument.

Oh, wow, you'd have such a good point if I wrongly accused you of being a Republican or a conservative or any thing right wing at all. Kind of like you've already wrongly put words, perspectives and ideas on to me. I didn't though, I just called you out for being a troll that likes to bait liberals. Huge difference.

DwnWthVwls · 03-29-2019, 11:26 AM

Shes getting the GHOAT and a GOAT

DwnWthVwls · 03-29-2019, 11:37 AM

Is there any complex system that functions without hierarchy? Seems necessary to create effeciency at levels that justify having a system in the first place. Not necessarily a hierarchy of class/income/etc but certainly decesion making and job duties. As someone starting out in a career we are a small team and im kind of the supporting role/jack of all trades team member and sometimes it absolutely sucks how much i have to learn and keep track of.

Id be interested to read some legit analysis of the topic if you have any.

Edit: I have 18 different software programs on my desktop that i use for various job duties not cpunting things like adobe and office suite type of products.

2 - process gps data
2 - lidar modeling programs
4 - 3d moseling programs
1 - process ground penetrating radar data
1 - national data database
4 - gis modeling applications
1 - project management database
1 - raster clipping
2 - data conversion tools

I used 5 of these programs prior to working here and no one else on the team uses all of them.

Anteater · 03-29-2019, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

I can I'm just not going to defend them as human nature because plenty of social standards that we've grown to adapt to have completely gone against human nature. I believe in progress not excuses to maintain the same ****ty status.

Nuh uhhh.

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I never called it fear mongering. At all. It was actually you who called the outrage of majority biases fear mongering.

Hence my original comparison. So many supposedly educated people on the Left and Right who identified as Christians believed that heavy metal had no redeeming qualities and was going to singlehandedly destroy society, incite violence with the youth, etc. I see parallels with that to where we are today as a society, especially with meme culture.

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You blatantly calling the outrage towards America's white biases fear mongering combined with your unprovoked "what about radical islam?" in the face of outrage towards a mosque shooting was disrespectful and obviously not a part of your satire. Just as you shoving words into my mouth based on your simple minded assumptions.

It wasn't disrespectful. I was pointing out ultimately that you can't be "Not All Muslims" or "Not All Christians" and then tell me the answer to preventing a future Mosque shooting is to deplatform anyone online who is right of center, or even guys left of center like Jonathan Haidt. That's been the media's answer to the "problem of white supremacy" and it's a hypocritical approach at best.

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I didn't address your hyperbole after you pointed out it was hyperbole. I initially addressed your stupid heavy metal comparison.

There was nothing stupid about it if you understood why I made the comparison in the first place.

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Oh, wow, you'd have such a good point if I wrongly accused you of being a Republican or a conservative or any thing right wing at all. Kind of like you've already wrongly put words, perspectives and ideas on to me. I didn't though, I just called you out for being a troll that likes to bait liberals. Huge difference.

Lolwut. You said I should be exiled from the U.S. completely out of nowhere because you were butthurt about that previous discussion on a completely separate thread. If this wasn't the case, you wouldn't have started this here.

Lucem Ferre · 03-29-2019, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Is there any complex system that functions without hierarchy? Seems necessary to create effeciency at levels that justify having a system in the first place. Not necessarily a hierarchy of class/income/etc but certainly decesion making and job duties. As someone starting out in a career we are a small team and im kind of the supporting role/jack of all trades team member and sometimes it absolutely sucks how much i have to learn and keep track of.

Id be interested to read some legit analysis of the topic if you have any.

Edit: I have 18 different software programs on my desktop that i use for various job duties not cpunting things like adobe and office suite type of products.

Thing is that nobody was discussing hierarchy's in general like he's trying to paint it. The whole discussion was on racially motivated hierarchy's and his argument was that it's impossible to avoid so we should just deal with it.

And I never actually addressed anything he said that was satire like he's trying to say, I addressed the fact that he said white supremacy isn't a problem because racial hierarchies exist else where. He can pretend saying that China or Hispanic majorities would be worse was meant to be a joke but he actually defended it when Bat called him out for supporting white supremacy with that comment.

The Batlord · 03-29-2019, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Is there any complex system that functions without hierarchy? Seems necessary to create effeciency at levels that justify having a system in the first place. Not necessarily a hierarchy of class/income/etc but certainly decesion making and job duties. As someone starting out in a career we are a small team and im kind of the supporting role/jack of all trades team member and sometimes it absolutely sucks how much i have to learn and keep track of.

Id be interested to read some legit analysis of the topic if you have any.

I'd agree to an extent, but our current, ancestral concept of hierarchy that we're using in supposedly liberal, democratic societies is passed down from monarchies and authoritarian societies that should be antithetical to modern sensibilities. We're supposed to treat our politicians as simply fellow citizens who have simply been given extra responsibility while the first lesson we ever learn is to do what our parents say without question because they know what's best for us. Then we go to school and learn the same thing for our teachers. Then we get shunted into the workplace where the boss doesn't know what's best for us but they don't have to cause they can just fire you and so you have to do everything they say anyway.

Our whole lives we're conditioned to roll over and accept authority and yet we're supposed to ignore that when it comes to politicians and the government. I don't know how you solve that but we're missing a mental paradigm shift somewhere in there.

Lucem Ferre · 03-29-2019, 12:09 PM

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Originally Posted by Anteater

Nuh uhhh.

You think our society is completely natural.

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Hence my original comparison. So many supposedly educated people on the Left and Right who identified as Christians believed that heavy metal had no redeeming qualities and was going to singlehandedly destroy society, incite violence with the youth, etc. I see parallels with that to where we are today as a society, especially with meme culture.

You heard it here folks. Ant thinks white supremacy doesn't incite violence and has plenty of redeemable qualities.

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It wasn't disrespectful. I was pointing out ultimately that you can't be "Not All Muslims" or "Not All Christians" and then tell me the answer to preventing a future Mosque shooting is to deplatform anyone online who is right of center. That's been the media's answer to the "problem of white supremacy" and it's a hypocritical approach at best.

No, don't try to revise your point. Your last little paragraph said it all.

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There was nothing stupid about it if you understood why I made the comparison in the first place.

I think I understand it better than you.

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Lolwut. You said I should be exiled from the U.S. completely out of nowhere because you were butthurt about that previous discussion on a completely separate thread. If this wasn't the case, you wouldn't have started this here.

No, I said that deep down in elph's lady friend's soul she wants you exiled. I said that you should get out of my country half because of you defending white supremacy with your "It's not so bad!" comments and the other half because I think telling an american born white person to get out of my country is funny. Especially when YOU got 10X more upset by it than I ever anticipated. It's hilarious. Seriously though, you might enjoy Canada.

Anteater · 03-29-2019, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

Thing is that nobody was discussing hierarchy's in general like he's trying to paint it. The whole discussion was on racially motivated hierarchy's and his argument was that it's impossible to avoid so we should just deal with it.

And I never actually addressed anything he said that was satire like he's trying to say, I addressed the fact that he said white supremacy isn't a problem because racial hierarchies exist else where. He can pretend saying that China or Hispanic majorities would be worse was meant to be a joke but he actually defended it when Bat called him out for supporting white supremacy with that comment.

It is impossible to do anything about it currently, which is why I started citing statistics and studies about how demographics were ultimately going to end up by 2046 or so. In a sense, that itself is the solution.

My comments about China and Hispanic majorities was entirely a joke, based on the fact that I enjoy a lot of sci-fi and alternative history that dive deep into these kinds of ideas. For example, I read a great alternative history novel around two years ago about the Aztecs winning against Cortez. The book was by a gay African-American sci-fi author with a background in engineering, and it was fascinating to see how he mapped out society from that point in history forward, since he ended up exploring how the modern world ultimately turned out because of that one key event.

Anyone who reads enough or spends enough time looking at any of this stuff can conclude that racial hierarchies as a whole inevitably result in some kind of marginalization. The question is, what do you do to create a world where race becomes entirely meaningless to the vast majority of people?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre

No, I said that deep down in elph's lady friend's soul she wants you exiled. I said that you should get out of my country half because of you defending white supremacy with your "It's not so bad!" comments and the other half because I think telling an american born white person to get out of my country is funny. Especially when YOU got 10X more upset by it than I ever anticipated. It's hilarious. Seriously though, you might enjoy Canada.

I think you missed the part where I was laughing at your ad hominem attacks. The rest of your post doesn't make any sense at all.

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Originally Posted by Dharma & Greg

I'd agree to an extent, but our current, ancestral concept of hierarchy that we're using in supposedly liberal, democratic societies is passed down from monarchies and authoritarian societies that should be antithetical to modern sensibilities. We're supposed to treat our politicians as simply fellow citizens who have simply been given extra responsibility while the first lesson we ever learn is to do what our parents say without question because they know what's best for us. Then we go to school and learn the same thing for our teachers. Then we get shunted into the workplace where the boss doesn't know what's best for us but they don't have to cause they can just fire you and so you have to do everything they say anyway.

Our whole lives we're conditioned to roll over and accept authority and yet we're supposed to ignore that when it comes to politicians and the government. I don't know how you solve that but we're missing a mental paradigm shift somewhere in there.

People accept authority (or are at least willing to compromise with it) because we deal with all kinds of scarcity, subconscious fears and other things...and don't believe that we can deal with the repercussions of a completely free and open world. There are a lot of people who don't want to wake up in a world where they don't have the conveniences of modern life readily available. They'd rather compromise and deal with the inherent screwed up aspects of society than deal with the alternative.

DwnWthVwls · 03-29-2019, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dharma & Greg

I'd agree to an extent, but our current, ancestral concept of hierarchy that we're using in supposedly liberal, democratic societies is passed down from monarchies and authoritarian societies that should be antithetical to modern sensibilities. We're supposed to treat our politicians as simply fellow citizens who have simply been given extra responsibility while the first lesson we ever learn is to do what our parents say without question because they know what's best for us. Then we go to school and learn the same thing for our teachers. Then we get shunted into the workplace where the boss doesn't know what's best for us but they don't have to cause they can just fire you and so you have to do everything they say anyway.

Our whole lives we're conditioned to roll over and accept authority and yet we're supposed to ignore that when it comes to politicians and the government. I don't know how you solve that but we're missing a mental paradigm shift somewhere in there.

I think i agree without giving it much thought. I think elph and possibly OH are against even the kind of hierarchy i presented and i wasnt sure if Lucem was as well. Im not interested in this lucem/ant discussion just the hierarchy part.

WWWP · 03-29-2019, 12:23 PM

I thought we were talking about me.