I don't really have any problems with meritocracy, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. If they had something to offer beyond cleaning toilets in a meritocracy they wouldnt be required to do labor no one else wants to do because they'd have something more valuable to offer, right?

The only issue I have is that they don't have access to the basic human rights we should all be afforded. As long as everyone has access to healthcare, shelter, food, etc I really don't care about super rich people having mansions and 17 cars (aside from the obvious environmental waste).

I’m done with that point. I feel like you get dragged into arguing with people own their terms. **** that. Take it or leave it.

Church

If that includes me even if I refuse to work we can form an alliance.

I hear ya!

That's a hard sell for me. There comes a time when I stop caring about people who are a drain on society and have no willingness to help themselves or contribute to society. I mostly agree, but as you know all my positions come with the caveat of taking some amount of personal responsibility.

I do recognize your first step. I'm not convinced it's immoral. Resources are finite and spending them on people who have no appreciation for them or a desire to be helped is ultimately taking resources from those who want to be helped, appreciate the help, and will do something with that help. Convince me otherwise.

You'd have a convincing point if resources and time were infinite.

And we’re back to overpopulation

I'm just waiting to hear a logical counter argument from elph and not some appeal to emotion.

Yikes.

How could anyone disagree?