The Batlord

Eh, more "objective" than music, but I'm willing to accept that there's a kernel of objectivity in music's expression of emotion. But then you'd have to agree (if agreeing to my terms) that anything that someone claims as music that doesn't express some kind of objective expression of human emotion isn't actually music, or is at least objectively bad music.

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Frownland

If it aims to express or (*shifts goalposts*) evoke that emotion then it would still be music. I would say that it's ineffective music instead of objectively bad music.

That said, music that would be 100% devoid of human emotion would be jarring at the least since I can't think of any music that doesn't have that connection in some way. If it can successfully evoke the emotion of confusion, then wouldn't that make it a more effective piece than trite music that we've basically been conditioned to ignore?

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Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

The Batlord

But what's the distinction between actual music and the general concept of art? To me 4'33's worth is that it exists as a challenge to the concept of what is and what is not music, but is ultimately a portal to the understanding of music without necessarily being music in and of itself. If I were at a performance of 4'33 I would consider the sounds I heard to be potentially music, but those sounds would be divorced from 4'33 itself since they would exist with or without it. The only connection would be giving me a presentation that would encourage me to bridge my idea of sound and music.

4'33 as a concept has no sounds to connect to any "emotional triggers" that music would activate by virtue of the sounds being heard.

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grindy

I just banned 46 bots.
Where's my ****ing parade?

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A smell of petroleum prevails throughout.

Oriphiel

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it, are Maroon 5 still a shitty band?

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The Batlord

No, bitch.

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Frownland

Sound, basically, but why do they have to be distinct?

It exists to demonstrate the musicality of those noises by giving them the stage in a context where people are actively listening. It's definitely a statement and meant to be a learning experience, but the idea is that those noises are up for grabs, so when 4'33" puts its focus on those sounds for the performance, those sounds are 4'33" regardless of whether or not they had to be manipulated into the work to become a part of it. It's not a silent piece.

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Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

Ninetales

bare bones: what's the difference between sound and music

Frownland

Sound is a verb, music is a noun.

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Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

grindy

Music is organized sound with artistic intent.

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A smell of petroleum prevails throughout.