Grandfather Paradox - Music Banter Music Banter

Go Back   Music Banter > Community Center > The Lounge
Register Blogging Today's Posts
Welcome to Music Banter Forum! Make sure to register - it's free and very quick! You have to register before you can post and participate in our discussions with over 70,000 other registered members. After you create your free account, you will be able to customize many options, you will have the full access to over 1,100,000 posts.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-19-2015, 10:35 AM   #31 (permalink)
Mate, Spawn & Die
 
Janszoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: The Rapping Community
Posts: 24,593
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Batlord View Post
But you're never going to act differently when either crossing or not crossing the bridge.
You just added a bridge in your universe. There was no bridge in Trollheart's. Imagine the ripple effects that will have.
Janszoon is offline  
Old 07-19-2015, 11:00 AM   #32 (permalink)
Fck Ths Thngs
 
DwnWthVwls's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NJ
Posts: 6,261
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Batlord View Post
But you're never going to act differently when either crossing or not crossing the bridge. The world is governed by mathematical laws, and unless there is magic that can introduce randomness (where one plus one can sometimes equal three) then your actions are predetermined, just like everything else. Free will is an illusion.
__________________
I don't got a god complex, you got a simple god...

Quote:
Originally Posted by elphenor View Post
I'd vote for Trump
DwnWthVwls is offline  
Old 07-19-2015, 11:17 AM   #33 (permalink)
Zum Henker Defätist!!
 
The Batlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Beating GNR at DDR and keying Axl's new car
Posts: 48,199
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chula Vista View Post
The human mind has evolved to a point beyond mathematical laws IMO. It's capable of passion that can drive a person to do things that are beyond any sense of comprehension or logic.
How do you evolve beyond math? Evolution is governed by naturalistic laws. To claim that something can "evolve beyond mathematical laws", you have to not only accept the existence of magic (previously defined by me as any governing force that defies natural laws as they exist in reality regardless if those laws contradict our current models), but that it enters the process at some point.

And seemingly irrational acts based on emotion are not illogical. Say you hear a stick crack in the middle of woods which you know full well are free from large predators, and which are not known for harboring criminal activity. It would be logical to assume that it was just a deer, or a hiker, but ancient instinct, from a time before the existance of human-created "safe zones" where they did not have to worry about predators, kicks in and you may very well become startled.

There is almost certainly no danger, but if your ancestors hadn't developed instincts to treat every noise in the woods as a possible threat, then they would likely have been eaten by considerably more bears. Emotions and instincts are not necessarily logical in every specific situation, but their development was still based logic.

Quote:
There was a story years back of a woman who roasted her young child to death in her oven because she was convinced he had the devil in him.

Sorry, but stuff like that is never going to be explained by an equation. It's not magic. It's the human brain gone haywire.
Sounds like an Argument from Incredulity, which is a logical fallacy basically meaning that since you can't imagine how something could be so, then it must not be so. Human emotions are complex to such an extent that the human mind is clearly incapable of fully understanding them, therefore, your own subjective analysis of them should be treated as suspect when attempting to do so.

People aren't clones. Genes are "randomized" to a certain extent in order to prevent genetic stagnation in a species. Since this process is not overseen by an infallible computer, undesirable deformities, both physical and mental, are bound to occur.

From what you describe, this woman was actually acting according to a parent's basic instinct to protect their child: she saw a threat (i.e. demonic possession) and acted to neutralize that threat. Her dysfunctional premise and response would probably still be mathematically predictable if your equation accounted for her mental aberration, and her mental illness (be it genetic and/or developmental) would also be predictable.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
The Batlord is offline  
Old 07-19-2015, 11:19 AM   #34 (permalink)
Zum Henker Defätist!!
 
The Batlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Beating GNR at DDR and keying Axl's new car
Posts: 48,199
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janszoon View Post
You just added a bridge in your universe. There was no bridge in Trollheart's. Imagine the ripple effects that will have.
Oops. I read that as "bridge" and not "road".

Quote:
Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls View Post
?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
The Batlord is offline  
Old 07-19-2015, 11:21 AM   #35 (permalink)
Fck Ths Thngs
 
DwnWthVwls's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: NJ
Posts: 6,261
Default

Griffin says you can act differently. He knows all about multiverses. Way more than you.
__________________
I don't got a god complex, you got a simple god...

Quote:
Originally Posted by elphenor View Post
I'd vote for Trump
DwnWthVwls is offline  
Old 07-19-2015, 11:47 AM   #36 (permalink)
Maelian
 
ladyislingering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 695
Default



also I just spent a good 5 minutes laughing myself to tears over Isbjørn's avatar.
__________________
You and I,
We were born to die.
ladyislingering is offline  
Old 07-19-2015, 12:03 PM   #37 (permalink)
Toasted Poster
 
Chula Vista's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SoCal by way of Boston
Posts: 11,332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Batlord View Post
Human emotions are complex to such an extent that the human mind is clearly incapable of fully understanding them, therefore, your own subjective analysis of them should be treated as suspect when attempting to do so.
So then math isn't going to work.

Quote:
From what you describe, this woman was actually acting according to a parent's basic instinct. Her dysfunctional premise and response would probably still be mathematically predictable.
I get what you are trying to say but I don't agree with it.
__________________

“The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well,
on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away
and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”
Chula Vista is offline  
Old 07-19-2015, 12:47 PM   #38 (permalink)
Zum Henker Defätist!!
 
The Batlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Beating GNR at DDR and keying Axl's new car
Posts: 48,199
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chula Vista View Post
So then math isn't going to work.
Maybe not our current level of mathematical understanding, but assuming there was a hypothetical super computer which could calculate EVERYTHING, then I'd imagine math would work.

And you ignored my point that just because you can't understand the complexities of human emotions doesn't mean that they are somehow magical.

Quote:
I get what you are trying to say but I don't agree with it.
Reason being?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
The Batlord is offline  
Old 07-19-2015, 12:52 PM   #39 (permalink)
Key
.
 
Key's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 13,153
Default

Batty, as much as I may disagree with you with using math as your argument, i'm enjoying your posts in this thread.
Key is offline  
Old 07-19-2015, 12:56 PM   #40 (permalink)
Zum Henker Defätist!!
 
The Batlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Beating GNR at DDR and keying Axl's new car
Posts: 48,199
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ki View Post
Batty, as much as I may disagree with you with using math as your argument, i'm enjoying your posts in this thread.
Mathematics are the basic building blocks of the universe, and govern everything in it. You can't really talk about secular predetermination without math.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien
There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power-stations; I hope that, encouraged now as ‘patriotism’, may remain a habit! But it won’t do any good, if it is not universal.
The Batlord is offline  
Closed Thread


Similar Threads



© 2003-2024 Advameg, Inc.