Kids: you gotta love 'em!
 

I will never have children, and even if by some miracle it happened that I met someone who wanted kids, I know I am way too selfish an individual to get involved in raising a child. I know that generally, once you have children your life is effectively over and what is yours is theirs. I recall one episode of "Roseanne" which illustrated this negative aspect of being a father brilliantly:

Dan goes to see this friend of his who has a big screen TV, satellite, massive stereo system, the works. The guy is single and Dan marvels at the stereo, as they swap techy info. He says "I once had a great system like this". The guy remarks "Oh yeah? What you got now?" Dan says glumly "Clock radio."

It's a great depiction of how, once you have children they take over your life and all your disposable income basically goes to raise them, or to give them what they want/need as they grow up. Someone once said you never stop being a parent, and I can believe it. That's part of the downside. There's also the sleepless nights, changing nappies/diapers, frantic visits to the doctor when something seems wrong, and all the other little things that can drive you mad as a parent.

But they're only the negative aspects. Let's get some perspective on this thing. I can't speak from personal experience, but I can only imagine the joy and pride of a father or mother when their son or daughter, for instance, graduates, gets a job, gets married. The simple pleasure of teaching your child to ride a bike, or play guitar or football. Those nights they sneak in to your room, escaping the bogeyman in the closet. That first time they call you daddy or mommy. So many wonderful memories can be built around children. Their first day at school, their first birthday, the baptism, the first time they make friends.

It doesn't matter if you think people shouldn't have kids: nobody's saying you have to personally add to the population if you don't wish to. But surely everyone can find one thing good to say about kids? Some are little bastards, sure, but let's not tar them all with one brush. Have you never listened to little girls playing shop, or boys playing football or chasing? Never answered the door to some cute kid wanting you to sponsor them for some walk or other, or who wants to see your cat or cut your grass?

So anyone who has, or wants, children, or just anyone who likes children post your thoughts here. The sloppier and more cringeworthy the better. Post pics if you want, and let us know your thoughts on kids. If you're a proud dad or mom, or going to be, or want to be, talk to us.

Because remember, the children are our future.
Unless we stop them... ;)

So this is basically the "Let's Try to Convert Ki and Lis Into Child Lovers!" thread?

Come on, just leave them alone. They may seem a bit extreme in their views towards parenthood, but believe me, it's very easy to become jaded when you have to put with horrible children and terrible parents every day. Maybe one day they'll change their minds, maybe not, but it sure as hell isn't going to be a half-assed thread that convinces them to start loving those little rascals.

I saw a kid once. I still have the scar.

^^Pippi da hippie.

It's all perspective. Some people see it as their life beginning a new and exciting chapter.

All the 'firsts' are wonderful, but I wasn't there for when my daughter caught her first fish, which actually brought me to tears for some reason. I don't even fish all that much. I guess it's the fact that I actually missed it that hurts. One of the best things about being a parent to a grown child though now days, is when my daughter calls me up just to tell me she loves me, and that she's lucky to have me for a father. My heart just wants to jump out of my chest.

The most important role as a parent is teaching your child/children how to be compassionate, understanding, and nurturing. It gives them a solid foundation for a healthy life ahead of them, and I've done this by way of example. I've never used phrases like "Because I said so", or exerted my will upon my daughter just out of my own ego. When ever my daughter did something questionable, I'd kneel down to her level, look her in the eye, and calmly explain why she shouldn't do what ever it was she was doing. This was always met with an "Ok Dad." as she'd scamper away and that would be the end of it. I've never had the inkling, or the need to have to hit my daughter for punishment either. I see other parents do the opposite of these things, as well as other bad parenting habits, and then they ask why their kids are out of control. Children are like little sponge mirrors. They'll soak up all you show them, then they'll mirror all of that back to you tenfold.

I could really go on and on about parenting. In my short 21 years as being one, I have to say I wouldn't trade a minute of it for anything else in the universe.

You reckon it's wrong to hit your kids then? I was going to post a thread about it ages ago but since you brought it up.

Plank that is quite possibly the sweetest thing I've ever seen on this forum.

Go ahead. I'd like to see where it goes.

Thanks Naught. Not trying to give anyone diabetes, just telling my story.

At this moment I couldn't give a **** about Ki and Lil. This is to try to redress the balance and clear some of the kid hatred out of the air, and also because I think children can be great. Though they can be an annoyance there is a lot more to them than that. I felt this needed to be made and so I made it. I honestly don't care what they do; both have nosedived in my estimation like you would not believe.

The world doesn't revolve around those two, you know.











It revolves around me... :pssst:

Fixed ;)
(The BatBaby.... dear god!)
:shycouch:

Lol there's basically nothing more stupid to me than hating children. It's basically an admission that you have ZERO understanding of developmental psychology and how we were all in that exact state and unrefined mind at one point. Just pitiful. If you don't want them or don't particularly like being around them that's one thing. But hating children? Disgusting.

Anyway when I was 15 my parents had another kid so I've pretty much gone through all those early stages with them and have spent tons and tons of time watching him while my parents were at work and whatnot, and hanging out with a little kid is an absolute blast (assuming he likes you a lot that is). I'm very, very excited to have some of my own but I'll be holding off on that for at least another 5 years or so

Hey, every dad on Earth called. Even they don't think that joke is funny.

My experience was similar. I have a sister three years younger than me, and three other siblings 9, 9.5*, and 11 years younger than me, so I was on babysitting duty forever. My parents would leave for weeks at a time when I was in high school and I was the only appointed caretaker. Sucked a lot at the time because I never really had my own childhood, but I learned to be selfless and unconditionally responsible.

I was the figure of authority to those kids but my feelings toward them were very maternal. I made them dinner, I helped with homework, I walked them to school. They slept in my bed with me when they were scared or lonely. I was proud of them, and we were an extremely close unit. No one really missed having our parents around, because when they were home the environment was toxic.

I moved out when I was 16, and shortly after my parents took the kids and moved to another town, 80 miles away. I was ultimately disowned and kept from my siblings. I couldn't call to talk to them, they weren't allowed to visit. In 2008 I moved to California and that was that.

I think this is where any hesitation to have children stems from for me. Those were my kids, and I'm still mourning losing them.


*Just to be clear, the three youngest are all half-siblings. My "real" parents split when I was young, and my mom was pregnant at the same time as my stepmom. My mom moved back to California after the baby was born, the kids I took care of were my whole sister, and two half-siblings.

Steph, I'm really sorry about that. You should be proud though that you did what you did, being a kind of surrogate parent for them. I'm sure they appreciate it, and miss you. Ever try catching them on Facebook or something?

Wow that's awful, I'm really sorry. I'd be devastated if I didn't get to see my little bro anymore, and I think he'd probably feel the same. One thing you can be sure of though is that they'll never forget you

I try, but there's a lot of tension there. I've been turned into some kind of villainous character, so I've spent a lot of time trying to reverse that image for them. I watch them grow up from the sidelines, mainly.

Without knowing all the circumstances, I have to say that's a terrible way to treat a person, Steph. I didn't have the sibling maternal duties thrust upon me like you, but I did have the 'turned me into a villainous character' thing going on when I was younger, and it left some deep scars. It's a despicable way to treat a young adult, and clearly throws the concept of unconditional love out the window.

That ****ing sucks. For all I know, you are "villainous" (just sayin', since I only have one side of the story), but I also know that family is family, no matter what the circumstances, and the bonds that develop, no matter how imperfect the circumstances, are as much a part of you as you are to yourself.

Not the same circumstances by any means, but my mother was by no means perfect, and yet she's made me who I am -- for better and worse -- and that if anything ever happened to take her away from me, that would probably leave a hole in me that I wasn't aware could be empty.

We're an awkward family unit, and our closeness is definitely tainted by the past, but as we're the only family that the other has contact on a consistent, day-to-day basis -- though we have plenty of family nearby that we see semi-regularly who are also important to us -- and there's just something about that kind of close-knit relationship that creates bonds that are impossible to quantify or compare to any other relationship you can have with anyone else.

For the past year or so, she's been ill, to the point where there was a legitimate chance that my family might have had to watch her slowly waste away and die, and while she seems to be mostly out of the woods now, how the alternative would have affected me I really don't know. Honestly, as emotionally twisted around and cutoff from most other human contact as I am, I don't know if I would have come out of her death in anything resembling a healthy mental state. I rely on her for so much -- as a provider of support, general acceptance of my issues, and probably things I'm not even aware of -- that I'm honestly not sure what would have happened to me, not to mention my grandparents.

TL;DR: Even if your specific circumstances are alien to me, I understand how the unique bonds created by a dysfunctional family can bring some of us together in a way that more well-adjusted people just can't be, just as the strife can drive other family away. Never give up on reconnecting, because I'm sure doing otherwise would only widen whatever scars you already have.

Maybe if I'd found my dad when I was still young enough for it to matter, then we might have had something meaningful between us, but people change and develop independently of each other, and if enough time passes, then trying to get back what you've lost might be impossible, just because everything is just too different for the "old ways" to still have the same meaning.

Edit: Well shucks, now that I think about it, this post of mine below is kind of rude and antagonistic. I guess I never could walk away from some good intrigue. Anyway, i'm sorry for calling you a sneering hobgoblin, YorkeDaddy. Feel free to ignore me, since I don't want to derail this thread after Plankton and WWWP classed it up so nicely. :laughing: Anyway, I posted it, so I guess it's only right that I leave it here and live with it.

I think you're just going to have to understand that not everyone in the world is like you. Some people have different mindsets, and there's nothing wrong with that. Saying that people who have an aversion to children are "disgusting" because children are just a natural part of life that they should learn to deal with, is just like calling someone who hates sex "disgusting" because they're rejecting something natural that is necessary for the perpetuation of our species; in the end, it's entirely pointless criticism that accomplishes nothing but bullying someone for being born with different values than you. At the end of the day, the person still has the same values that they did before, only now they feel like human garbage, and are even less trusting of the people around them then they were before. And even if you still insist on trying to "fix" them, and you really want to convince someone that they're making a mistake with their behavior, then at least talk to them like a fucking human being, instead of throwing insults at them and insinuating that they're some "stupid" freak of nature.

Seriously, the hypocrisy here is astounding. Lis gets called out for insulting people with children, calling them "breeders", and you respond by throwing insults right back at her. This is some school-yard level shit right here. So she got a little carried away with her choice of words, she and Ki have already made it clear that they made a mistake, and that they didn't mean to offend anyone.

Oh, come off it. Remember when you made that thread about suicide, and everyone criticized you for saying that "only cowards commit suicide"? How would you have felt if right after that, I kicked you while you were down by making a dumbass thread called "Suicide: You Gotta Love It!", all about the rich cultural traditions throughout the world of ritualistic suicide, and highlighting historical and mythological figures who sacrificed themselves for some great and noble purpose? And then some sneering little hobgoblin comes in and starts calling anyone who hates the general idea of suicide except in cases of terminal illness "disgusting" and "stupid"?

I'm not saying that you're intentionally bullying Ki and Lis, i'm just saying that they probably feel they're being paraded around for their difference from the social norm. Get where i'm coming from?

So they're allowed to have a vile, deliberately and unjustifiably hateful opinion about a subset of human beings but I'm not allowed to voice how much it bothered me? Okay then whatever you say mate, but I definitely will not be apologizing.

No, i'm saying that using words like "vile" to describe the ideals of someone who's only crime is being born different than you is hypocritical and pointless. Do you really think Lis and Ki go around snatching and torturing kids like the fucking Child Catcher from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang? How do you know that their disdain for parenthood stems not from some hatred of children, but rather from them not wanting to give up their freedom to take care of a living creature that they're not yet (and may never be) prepared for, and from them being constantly ostracized by the child-bearers around them for not being interested in having kids of their own? So Lis jumped the gun and said some foolish things, we're all guilty of that once in awhile (including you). But when someone admits that they were out of line, then it's time to let it go (unless all you were looking for in the first place was the chance to kick someone while they're down).

You're acting like you're some white knight on a quest to enlighten the wicked, but I think you should read this again...

Do you get what I was trying to say? I don't care if Lis has a point of view that is clearly uninformed, it still doesn't give you the right to be so insensitive, because doing so accomplishes and changes nothing, and in fact hurts the very cause you're fighting for. Even when someone throws around insults first, doing it right back at them is just stooping to their level, and accomplishes nothing but creating even more animosity (which is why I apologized for calling you a hobgoblin; it was out of line). If you really cared about your cause, you wouldn't have just thrown insults at Lis as if she was some hopeless freak. You would have rationally explained your stance, and legitimately tried to talk with her. But the fact that you cared more about taking a pot shot at someone than actually trying to help them to live what you consider to be a "healthy" lifestyle just goes to show that you care far more about bullying people than actually talking with them.

Anyway, let's not do this in public, where we're derailing things and annoying people who probably couldn't give any less of a fuck. Send me a PM if you want to continue, I'll be glad to carry this on in private.

i don't hate kids cause that would mean wishing some sort of harm upon them

i just find them annoying as **** for the most part (the ones under 8, anyway)

and you can say "noooo! thats ignorant! psychology! psychology!"

but i'll just point to mine and my neighbor's dogs howling like morons to each other all day

doesn't matter if i understand what provokes the stimuli/response, it's still annoying. and though while it is conceptually interesting, when it's confronted on a day to day basis, it's just about as endearing as the ants that are trying to conquer one particular part of my porch in an organized colonial force that seems to be stemming from one particular tree

tl:dr i appreciate organic life while still sometimes finding it a pragmatic nuisance, but i don't 'hate' any form of life

except for retarded kids of course

This point of view is fine, thank you for not spewing hateful vitriol about people who literally cannot know how to act differently than they do even if it does bother you

^ He said as he spewed hateful vitriol about people who literally cannot know how to act differently than they do...

Seriously guys, either let's switch to PMs or give it a rest. Or we can even make a shiny new thread where the only people we're annoying are ourselves.

I don't think the childfree life is extreme or anything new to society. Any reason a breeder might have as to why it's necessary for literally every human to procreate can easily be debunked by logic. I've gotten a lot of dirty looks for saying that I'm childfree, never had a want/need to procreate, and would like to be sterilized in the future to ensure my forever-freedom from children, but I've also met a ton of amazing people (including parents who don't act like sanctimommies, foaming out their mouths about their child every 5 seconds) who don't act like total dicks about the whole thing.

take care of the children who are already alive and in need (e.g.; children who were born to drug addicts and other people incapable of handling their reproductive organs in a responsible fashion) if you care so damned much about them - it makes more sense than making more, which is just a thinly veiled byproduct of your ego.

You're kidding yourself if you think I'm interested in discussing whether it's okay to say the things they said with you in PM

Meanwhile I don't care whether you think what I said was justified, I really honestly could not give less of a fuck

I have a solid theory that with reasonable measures to control breeding and limit the act to those with suitable genetics, we could remove the problem of developmental/learning disabilities forever and save a future generation from having to suffer with everything that comes with being born with a sickness that's essentially entirely due to poor genetics.

There are exceptions but generally not a big fan of kids myself to be fair. Probably cos I'm not really good with them.

I like kids, but at the moment I don't want any of my own.

Most of the small children I've encountered are ****ing hilarious. Just recently I opened my living room window to enjoy the nice weather and my cat jumped up to chill on the ledge. My upstairs neighbor has foster kids and the younger one was outside playing. All of a sudden I hear "KIIITTTEES! Kitty, do you want a stick?" And then he proceeded to throw sticks at my window. I resisted the urge to scold at him like an old man, and just accepted it as a wtf moment and enjoyed the hilarity.

I've seen a ton of little shits but I've also seen a bunch of kids that are just too much, too damn funny.

There was a little girl (couldn't have been older than 4 or 5) that was so astounded upon meeting me (I've got hair that's nearly touching my knees and people go mad over it) that she had to tell her mother: "Mommy, this lady is a mermaid!"

I died all over the place, it was so precious.

Not precious enough for me to ever need something so messy and prone to violent outbursts in my life, but precious.

My cat is my baby, and that will always be.

Why did you quote my post when you said that? It just seems odd that it's directed towards me, when I was defending you and Ki.

YorkeDaddy, I want you to reread your post and really let it sink in. After acting like you were heroically trying to convince Lis that she was entertaining a false lifestyle, you just now admitted that you "could not give any less of a fuck" about our points of view, and about actually talking about the issue. So, if you're not interested in talking about the issue, what the fuck is the point of you even being here, other than to throw around a few insults and refuse to actually have a civil discussion?

Nope. Take a genetics class.

It would take a lot more than selective breeding for that to ever happen.

Haha. I'd actually be flattered by that, even coming from a small child. See ya'll, we can appreciate kids, we just don't want to be burdened with one.

Also, I've kind of accepted the fact that I'm likely going to die alone with 10+ cats as my only kinship. Look for me on future episodes of animal hoarders: cat lady edition.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you there. I like people just as flawed as they are, and eugenics is a very slippery slope. How do we decide what traits should be "gotten rid of"? How long until we start phasing out the benign traits that make us unique? Could we resist the temptation to start manufacturing humans to be as efficient and passionless as possible? Reminds me of "Brave New World". I'd rather have humans without any genetic manipulation, than have people with too much.

There's nothing TO sink in because this is so engrained into who I am as a person that it's unswayable. I love my little brother more than anything and hearing people talk about children like they shouldn't even be had makes me physically sick. I will not apologize for calling it disgusting. Like I've said you can not want children all you want but going that far is beyond outrageous. Just like basically everyone else on this forum I'm making my stance known and nothing will change that, you're apparently okay with THEM being that firm but not me. You're not being very objective, you're just fighting for the sake of fighting.

Yeah, sorry Lil, but you seriously need to adjust your attitude toward mental handicaps. It's strange you make the case against obvious mental disabilities and don't really touch the ones that are harder to identify. What about depression, alcoholism, OCD? You think people who suffer from those aliments should be erased?

But the difference is, you don't see them continually taking personal potshots at you. They said one hateful thing, and later expressed that it was wrong of them, while you have thrown multiple insults at them and "refuse to apologize". And you've repeatedly expressed that you will never even try to understand their point of view, while Lis is in this thread, right now, justifying what she said, and she's more than willing to talk to you if you'll give her a chance. Right now, she's being much more courteous than you are; learn from her example.

Seriously, why are you still talking to me? Lis is right over there. If you have something to say to her, go for it.

I agree. I can imagine a world where the parents get to program their child's tendency towards religious beliefs, political affiliations, habits, etc., and it makes me shudder. The possible benefits of going gown that road are far outweighed by all of the horrible things that could happen when people have too much control over the futures of others.

I'm all about just ending human suffering as much as possible. Unfortunately we can't forever destroy things like cancer or sexually transmitted diseases or other terminal illnesses sometimes brought on by lifestyle choices or tricky genetic problems, but I'm completely certain that no child with mental retardation wants to be retarded. Most of the time they're completely aware that something's not quite right but they can't explain why people are such assholes toward them.

And before everyone gets on my case about that, before I resolved that I wanted to pursue an education in psychiatric medicine, I wanted to be a mentor/teacher for special needs children. Before I realized that I just don't have the time or patience for children at all.


My cat is amazing.

He eats by himself, poops in a box, minds his own business most of the time, understands a plethora of words and he's not even a year old yet. He's absolutely self-reliant in so many ways (not that it's a hassle to refill his food and water and cuddle him because he's so goddamn adorable and sweet) and his existence as my child is incredibly inexpensive.

Yes, absolutely.

Why the fuck do you think I'm not having kids?? :laughing:

We don't need another paranoid, depressive alcoholic with borderline personality disorder and anorexia (I'm currently in recovery) in this world. Nobody wants that shit. I certainly never asked to be fucked up, but (surprise surprise) my entire ancestry is littered with mentally ill people.

you guys, honestly I'm a little drunk right now and I don't have the patience to touch on all bases, to respond to everyone in a coherent fashion and I apologize for that.