Kids: you gotta love 'em!

The Batlord · 05-05-2015, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

It's going to be really awkward when Trollheart comes back, and gazes upon the ashes of his thread. So, I guess I'll preemptively leave a message...

Hey Trollheart! Welcome back! Sorry, I guess?

Back on topic, I think I'd like to be a parent one day. Right now, though, i'm definitely not ready for the responsibility.

I think it's gonna be hilarious. As OCD as he is, it's going to throw him into conniptions to see that his thread has not been used as he intended.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanilla

I'm very attracted to by kids.

Chula Vista · 05-05-2015, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overcast

However, I think if I was ever a father that my child/children would be the most important thing to me, and that I'd drop everything about myself to make sure I was the best father possible. This probably has something to do with the dismal relationship I have with my parents, but naturally I may just have that instinct as well. The reason I hate some youngions may have more to do with the parents than they themselves as well.

This post delivers. I could have written it myself.

Trollheart · 05-05-2015, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

Edit: Well shucks, now that I think about it, this post of mine below is kind of rude and antagonistic. I guess I never could walk away from some good intrigue. Anyway, i'm sorry for calling you a sneering hobgoblin, YorkeDaddy. Feel free to ignore me, since I don't want to derail this thread after Plankton and WWWP classed it up so nicely.

Anyway, I posted it, so I guess it's only right that I leave it here and live with it.

I think you're just going to have to understand that not everyone in the world is like you. Some people have different mindsets, and there's nothing wrong with that. Saying that people who have an aversion to children are "disgusting" because children are just a natural part of life that they should learn to deal with, is just like calling someone who hates sex "disgusting" because they're rejecting something natural that is necessary for the perpetuation of our species; in the end, it's entirely pointless criticism that accomplishes nothing but bullying someone for being born with different values than you. At the end of the day, the person still has the same values that they did before, only now they feel like human garbage, and are even less trusting of the people around them then they were before. And even if you still insist on trying to "fix" them, and you really want to convince someone that they're making a mistake with their behavior, then at least talk to them like a fucking human being, instead of throwing insults at them and insinuating that they're some "stupid" freak of nature.

Seriously, the hypocrisy here is astounding. Lis gets called out for insulting people with children, calling them "breeders", and you respond by throwing insults right back at her. This is some school-yard level shit right here. So she got a little carried away with her choice of words, she and Ki have already made it clear that they made a mistake, and that they didn't mean to offend anyone.

Oh, come off it. Remember when you made that thread about suicide, and everyone criticized you for saying that "only cowards commit suicide"? How would you have felt if right after that, I kicked you while you were down by making a dumbass thread called "Suicide: You Gotta Love It!", all about the rich cultural traditions throughout the world of ritualistic suicide, and highlighting historical and mythological figures who sacrificed themselves for some great and noble purpose? And then some sneering little hobgoblin comes in and starts calling anyone who hates the general idea of suicide except in cases of terminal illness "disgusting" and "stupid"?

I'm not saying that you're intentionally bullying Ki and Lis, i'm just saying that they probably feel they're being paraded around for their difference from the social norm. Get where i'm coming from?

What a load of old bollocks! When did Ki and Lil ever apologise or justify their hatred of children? They didn't, not to me. And yes, I made this thread the morning after, but hoping specifically that they wouldn't post. Don't presume to tell me what was in my mind. I know it's a reaction to them, but that hurt me and angered me so, that anyone could be so insensitive and spread hatred like that. What's next? Apologising for Hitler? ****ing hell! You make it seem as if anyone can say anything no matter how hurtful or nasty it is, which is basically what Ki said too: if you find it offensive don't read it. What total crap! People have to have a sense of decency and realise that some of the things they say, and some of the vies they express may hurt, anger or upset or insult others, and think twice before they say them. I'm not saying Ki and Lil can't have their views, I just don't think it's right for her in particular to go around sneering at kids and people who have kids in her superior, I-am-better-than-you way. It ****ing kills me.

And for the love of god! Please use logic when posting. How could anyone make a thread called "You gotta love suicide?" Even if they did, remember that the thrust of my thread was not that I disagree with it, but that people should not be sent to jail for assisting those who feel they have to end their lives but can't themselves through disability. I would not start a thread called "I think suicide is the coward's way out". Not to mention, I apologised for using that phrase at the beginning and had the thread closed once it became clear that it was insulting and angering people.

Now you can say all you want about Ki and Lil's first amendment rights or whatever the **** it is you're saying to protect them, but I will not deal with someone who has that level of hatred against defenceless children and who calls parents cattle, and has not even the shred of decency required to actually apologise or qualify their remark. No, Lil would rather post in other threads about being drunk than come into mine and explain to me, fight with me, defend her corner or try to put her case. She never came in, Ki ran off when he saw I had quoted something he said which he obviously forgot he said. I don't care either way, but your defending their right of free speech and their "different way of looking at things" really smacks of apologism for the sake of it. Doesn't cut the slightest shard of ice with me. They are wrong: all children are not monsters. Some can be, but they (or she anyway) refuses to admit that and see the (so much) good about being a parent, and I will not deal with someone who has that narrow and entrenched a view on a hot button issue for me.

Also, I never said (as you appear to be trying to put the words in my mouth) that I didn't make this thread IN REACTION to them, but I certainly did NOT make it in the vain hope that I could "convert" them. I don't care about converting them. Their attitude (hers at least) sickens me and I want little to do with either. If somehow, somewhere along the line they change their minds, that's great, but that's not what this is about. This is to (as I already said) give a voice to those of us (the great majority) who do NOT hate children and who do not understand what to us is an irrational reaction to the very idea of offspring.

Finally, your own hypocrisy is the worst. You say "talk to them like human beings"? What was Ki's reaction to my bringing up the subject? He ****ed off didn't he, and Lil never even entered the thread. I expected maybe PMs, got none. How's that for treating someone like a human being? It is NOT, I repeat NOT OK to hate children. You use the euphemism "aversion" and if that's all it was I would not have a problem. Someone says "I don't like kids, would never have them", that's fine. It's this sneering hatred and this laughing at those who have or want kids, as if this makes them somehow sub-par human beings, that fires me and makes me want to ... you know what? I'll just stop there. I've made this thread in order to allow people to express their love or, or at least lack of hated of, kids, and you've gone and made me fume again by insisting I justify the creation of the thread, even though I already answered that in one of the first posts. Just leave me alone, all right? I don't want to talk to you. Stop being their apologist. If they want to talk to me I'm sure they're well capable of doing so without you fighting thier battles for them. I just want this to be a thread without drama but you seem determined to ensure it has it, and then ends up being closed again.

I don't want to be rude, but just leave it, ok? PM me if you must and I'll talk further, but stop derailing what has been a decent enough thread up to now.

DwnWthVwls · 05-05-2015, 11:50 AM

Inb4 Trollheart gets another thread locked.

~~Cuthbert~~ · 05-05-2015, 11:52 AM

lol

Urban Hat€monger ? · 05-05-2015, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DwnWthVwls

Inb4 Trollheart get's another thread locked.

Why? none of it's off topic.
You can all bitch & moan about each others opinions as much as you like, I thought that was the whole point of a forum.

Oriphiel · 05-05-2015, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

What a load of old bollocks! When did Ki and Lil ever apologise or justify their hatred of children? They didn't, not to me. And yes, I made this thread the morning after, but hoping specifically that they wouldn't post. Don't presume to tell me what was in my mind. I know it's a reaction to them, but that hurt me and angered me so, that anyone could be so insensitive and spread hatred like that. What's next? Apologising for Hitler? ****ing hell! You make it seem as if anyone can say anything no matter how hurtful or nasty it is, which is basically what Ki said too: if you find it offensive don't read it. What total crap! People have to have a sense of decency and realise that some of the things they say, and some of the vies they express may hurt, anger or upset or insult others, and think twice before they say them. I'm not saying Ki and Lil can't have their views, I just don't think it's right for her in particular to go around sneering at kids and people who have kids in her superior, I-am-better-than-you way. It ****ing kills me.

And for the love of god! Please use logic when posting. How could anyone make a thread called "You gotta love suicide?" Even if they did, remember that the thrust of my thread was not that I disagree with it, but that people should not be sent to jail for assisting those who feel they have to end their lives but can't themselves through disability. I would not start a thread called "I think suicide is the coward's way out". Not to mention, I apologised for using that phrase at the beginning and had the thread closed once it became clear that it was insulting and angering people.

Now you can say all you want about Ki and Lil's first amendment rights or whatever the **** it is you're saying to protect them, but I will not deal with someone who has that level of hatred against defenceless children and who calls parents cattle, and has not even the shred of decency required to actually apologise or qualify their remark. No, Lil would rather post in other threads about being drunk than come into mine and explain to me, fight with me, defend her corner or try to put her case. She never came in, Ki ran off when he saw I had quoted something he said which he obviously forgot he said. I don't care either way, but your defending their right of free speech and their "different way of looking at things" really smacks of apologism for the sake of it. Doesn't cut the slightest shard of ice with me. They are wrong: all children are not monsters. Some can be, but they (or she anyway) refuses to admit that and see the (so much) good about being a parent, and I will not deal with someone who has that narrow and entrenched a view on a hot button issue for me.

Also, I never said (as you appear to be trying to put the words in my mouth) that I didn't make this thread IN REACTION to them, but I certainly did NOT make it in the vain hope that I could "convert" them. I don't care about converting them. Their attitude (hers at least) sickens me and I want little to do with either. If somehow, somewhere along the line they change their minds, that's great, but that's not what this is about. This is to (as I already said) give a voice to those of us (the great majority) who do NOT hate children and who do not understand what to us is an irrational reaction to the very idea of offspring.

Finally, your own hypocrisy is the worst. You say "talk to them like human beings"? What was Ki's reaction to my bringing up the subject? He ****ed off didn't he, and Lil never even entered the thread. I expected maybe PMs, got none. How's that for treating someone like a human being? It is NOT, I repeat NOT OK to hate children. You use the euphemism "aversion" and if that's all it was I would not have a problem. Someone says "I don't like kids, would never have them", that's fine. It's this sneering hatred and this laughing at those who have or want kids, as if this makes them somehow sub-par human beings, that fires me and makes me want to ... you know what? I'll just stop there. I've made this thread in order to allow people to express their love or, or at least lack of hated of, kids, and you've gone and made me fume again by insisting I justify the creation of the thread, even though I already answered that in one of the first posts. Just leave me alone, all right? I don't want to talk to you. Stop being their apologist. If they want to talk to me I'm sure they're well capable of doing so without you fighting thier battles for them. I just want this to be a thread without drama but you seem determined to ensure it has it, and then ends up being closed again.

I don't want to be rude, but just leave it, ok? PM me if you must and I'll talk further, but stop derailing what has been a decent enough thread up to now.

We were back on track and talking civilly until you posted this gigantic definition of "TL;DR" (which I stopped reading after you compared defending Ki and Lis to Hitler apologists). I'm sorry to have to do this to you, especially since it's your thread, but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oriphiel

Oh no you don't.

This thread is going to get back on track, dammit. You can argue all you want... in the shoutbox.

The Batlord · 05-05-2015, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

What's next? Apologising for Hitler? ****ing hell!

Godwin's Law has now been invoked. Trollheart's argument is invalid.

Trollheart · 05-05-2015, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wilkes Booth

i don't hate kids cause that would mean wishing some sort of harm upon them

i just find them annoying as **** for the most part (the ones under 8, anyway)

and you can say "noooo! thats ignorant! psychology! psychology!"

but i'll just point to mine and my neighbor's dogs howling like morons to each other all day

doesn't matter if i understand what provokes the stimuli/response, it's still annoying. and though while it is conceptually interesting, when it's confronted on a day to day basis, it's just about as endearing as the ants that are trying to conquer one particular part of my porch in an organized colonial force that seems to be stemming from one particular tree

tl:dr i appreciate organic life while still sometimes finding it a pragmatic nuisance, but i don't 'hate' any form of life

except for retarded kids of course

Thre's nothing wrong with this post. If this had been Lil's comment instead of "all kids are the spawn of Satan and all parents are cattle", I would not have had a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladyislingering

I have a solid theory that with reasonable measures to control breeding and limit the act to those with suitable genetics, we could remove the problem of developmental/learning disabilities forever and save a future generation from having to suffer with everything that comes with being born with a sickness that's essentially entirely due to poor genetics.

I love the way you completely fail to address any of my points. Being drunk is not an excuse. Post when you're sobre. When you are, the point is that by describing parents as you did, you insulted every mother who ever bore a child, including my own. Not intentionally you may say, but that's why you need to check before saying things like that. Consider that not everyone holds the opinion you do, and that what you say may hurt them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overcast

I'm surprised people are so offended over their comments. Do people not have the right to hate kids? I hate babies to the point I try my best to avoid them at all costs. I guess hate is the wrong word choice, I'm more anxious in their presence and generally avoidant of them. Some kids can be pleasant, some can be worse than babies. However, I think if I was ever a father that my child/children would be the most important thing to me, and that I'd drop everything about myself to make sure I was the best father possible. This probably has something to do with the dismal relationship I have with my parents, but naturally I may just have that instinct as well. The reason I hate some youngions may have more to do with the parents than they themselves as well.

Also,

Elderly > Adults > Kids > Babies = Teenagers

They do, but not to express it in such hateful terms, and as if everyone agrees with them. Honestly, does Lil not even accept that there are good things to having kids, first and foremost of course being that it's a chance to continue your existence on? Anyway I don't seriously think anyone hates kids: I think people have problems with them sometimes (certainly I have) and could cheerfully strangle them, but in the end this is all bluster and if it came right down to it I believe a majority of people would admit kids are ok. They may not want them, but I'd be surprised if they hated them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanilla

I'm very attracted to by kids. This might sound funny but any time I'm sitting at the bus stop or on the bus with one they stare/smile at me and when we chat they are super responsive to me. No idea why. I have no idea whether I want or will have children but it depends on whether my situation improves. Being in pain all the time doesn't pave the way for children. I have to care for myself and that takes enough effort. I'm in and out of hospital regularly. I can't bring kids into the world until I know I'm ready.

Some people are just great with kids...

Orph, sorry for living in a different time zone! When I saw your post it just got me so angry and I still am. It's all very fine for you to say "we're back on track" but I've just read your post and I stand by every single word. If that causes us problems, so be it, but you can't just say that crap and then hours later (for you) expect me to just read it and not respond. You may have calmed down by now but I'm hot as **** about it.

And please do me the courtesy of reading the whole post. It's very insulting to say tl;dr when I've had to read your rambling discourse, both to me and to YorkeDaddy. I'd really appreciate if you read it because you really need to. And ffs the Hitler thing was a metaphor to point out that you can't justify everything on the basis of "people can say what they like". Stop trying to twist my words, or at least their intent. Please.

The Batlord · 05-05-2015, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Honestly, does Lil not even accept that there are good things to having kids, first and foremost of course being that it's a chance to continue your existence on?

If I'm dead, but my kids aren't, then I'm still dead and my existence has not been continued in anything but a genetic sense.

05-05-2015, 11:52 AM	#65 (permalink)
~~Cuthbert~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Black Country Posts: 8,827	lol