YorkeDaddy

Lol there's basically nothing more stupid to me than hating children. It's basically an admission that you have ZERO understanding of developmental psychology and how we were all in that exact state and unrefined mind at one point. Just pitiful. If you don't want them or don't particularly like being around them that's one thing. But hating children? Disgusting.

Anyway when I was 15 my parents had another kid so I've pretty much gone through all those early stages with them and have spent tons and tons of time watching him while my parents were at work and whatnot, and hanging out with a little kid is an absolute blast (assuming he likes you a lot that is). I'm very, very excited to have some of my own but I'll be holding off on that for at least another 5 years or so

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The Batlord

Hey, every dad on Earth called. Even they don't think that joke is funny.

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WWWP

My experience was similar. I have a sister three years younger than me, and three other siblings 9, 9.5*, and 11 years younger than me, so I was on babysitting duty forever. My parents would leave for weeks at a time when I was in high school and I was the only appointed caretaker. Sucked a lot at the time because I never really had my own childhood, but I learned to be selfless and unconditionally responsible.

I was the figure of authority to those kids but my feelings toward them were very maternal. I made them dinner, I helped with homework, I walked them to school. They slept in my bed with me when they were scared or lonely. I was proud of them, and we were an extremely close unit. No one really missed having our parents around, because when they were home the environment was toxic.

I moved out when I was 16, and shortly after my parents took the kids and moved to another town, 80 miles away. I was ultimately disowned and kept from my siblings. I couldn't call to talk to them, they weren't allowed to visit. In 2008 I moved to California and that was that.

I think this is where any hesitation to have children stems from for me. Those were my kids, and I'm still mourning losing them.


*Just to be clear, the three youngest are all half-siblings. My "real" parents split when I was young, and my mom was pregnant at the same time as my stepmom. My mom moved back to California after the baby was born, the kids I took care of were my whole sister, and two half-siblings.

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Trollheart

Steph, I'm really sorry about that. You should be proud though that you did what you did, being a kind of surrogate parent for them. I'm sure they appreciate it, and miss you. Ever try catching them on Facebook or something?

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YorkeDaddy

Wow that's awful, I'm really sorry. I'd be devastated if I didn't get to see my little bro anymore, and I think he'd probably feel the same. One thing you can be sure of though is that they'll never forget you

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WWWP

I try, but there's a lot of tension there. I've been turned into some kind of villainous character, so I've spent a lot of time trying to reverse that image for them. I watch them grow up from the sidelines, mainly.

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Plankton

Without knowing all the circumstances, I have to say that's a terrible way to treat a person, Steph. I didn't have the sibling maternal duties thrust upon me like you, but I did have the 'turned me into a villainous character' thing going on when I was younger, and it left some deep scars. It's a despicable way to treat a young adult, and clearly throws the concept of unconditional love out the window.

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The Batlord

That ****ing sucks. For all I know, you are "villainous" (just sayin', since I only have one side of the story), but I also know that family is family, no matter what the circumstances, and the bonds that develop, no matter how imperfect the circumstances, are as much a part of you as you are to yourself.

Not the same circumstances by any means, but my mother was by no means perfect, and yet she's made me who I am -- for better and worse -- and that if anything ever happened to take her away from me, that would probably leave a hole in me that I wasn't aware could be empty.

We're an awkward family unit, and our closeness is definitely tainted by the past, but as we're the only family that the other has contact on a consistent, day-to-day basis -- though we have plenty of family nearby that we see semi-regularly who are also important to us -- and there's just something about that kind of close-knit relationship that creates bonds that are impossible to quantify or compare to any other relationship you can have with anyone else.

For the past year or so, she's been ill, to the point where there was a legitimate chance that my family might have had to watch her slowly waste away and die, and while she seems to be mostly out of the woods now, how the alternative would have affected me I really don't know. Honestly, as emotionally twisted around and cutoff from most other human contact as I am, I don't know if I would have come out of her death in anything resembling a healthy mental state. I rely on her for so much -- as a provider of support, general acceptance of my issues, and probably things I'm not even aware of -- that I'm honestly not sure what would have happened to me, not to mention my grandparents.

TL;DR: Even if your specific circumstances are alien to me, I understand how the unique bonds created by a dysfunctional family can bring some of us together in a way that more well-adjusted people just can't be, just as the strife can drive other family away. Never give up on reconnecting, because I'm sure doing otherwise would only widen whatever scars you already have.

Maybe if I'd found my dad when I was still young enough for it to matter, then we might have had something meaningful between us, but people change and develop independently of each other, and if enough time passes, then trying to get back what you've lost might be impossible, just because everything is just too different for the "old ways" to still have the same meaning.

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Oriphiel

Edit: Well shucks, now that I think about it, this post of mine below is kind of rude and antagonistic. I guess I never could walk away from some good intrigue. Anyway, i'm sorry for calling you a sneering hobgoblin, YorkeDaddy. Feel free to ignore me, since I don't want to derail this thread after Plankton and WWWP classed it up so nicely. Anyway, I posted it, so I guess it's only right that I leave it here and live with it.

I think you're just going to have to understand that not everyone in the world is like you. Some people have different mindsets, and there's nothing wrong with that. Saying that people who have an aversion to children are "disgusting" because children are just a natural part of life that they should learn to deal with, is just like calling someone who hates sex "disgusting" because they're rejecting something natural that is necessary for the perpetuation of our species; in the end, it's entirely pointless criticism that accomplishes nothing but bullying someone for being born with different values than you. At the end of the day, the person still has the same values that they did before, only now they feel like human garbage, and are even less trusting of the people around them then they were before. And even if you still insist on trying to "fix" them, and you really want to convince someone that they're making a mistake with their behavior, then at least talk to them like a fucking human being, instead of throwing insults at them and insinuating that they're some "stupid" freak of nature.

Seriously, the hypocrisy here is astounding. Lis gets called out for insulting people with children, calling them "breeders", and you respond by throwing insults right back at her. This is some school-yard level shit right here. So she got a little carried away with her choice of words, she and Ki have already made it clear that they made a mistake, and that they didn't mean to offend anyone.

Oh, come off it. Remember when you made that thread about suicide, and everyone criticized you for saying that "only cowards commit suicide"? How would you have felt if right after that, I kicked you while you were down by making a dumbass thread called "Suicide: You Gotta Love It!", all about the rich cultural traditions throughout the world of ritualistic suicide, and highlighting historical and mythological figures who sacrificed themselves for some great and noble purpose? And then some sneering little hobgoblin comes in and starts calling anyone who hates the general idea of suicide except in cases of terminal illness "disgusting" and "stupid"?

I'm not saying that you're intentionally bullying Ki and Lis, i'm just saying that they probably feel they're being paraded around for their difference from the social norm. Get where i'm coming from?

YorkeDaddy

So they're allowed to have a vile, deliberately and unjustifiably hateful opinion about a subset of human beings but I'm not allowed to voice how much it bothered me? Okay then whatever you say mate, but I definitely will not be apologizing.

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