WWWP

My experience was similar. I have a sister three years younger than me, and three other siblings 9, 9.5*, and 11 years younger than me, so I was on babysitting duty forever. My parents would leave for weeks at a time when I was in high school and I was the only appointed caretaker. Sucked a lot at the time because I never really had my own childhood, but I learned to be selfless and unconditionally responsible.

I was the figure of authority to those kids but my feelings toward them were very maternal. I made them dinner, I helped with homework, I walked them to school. They slept in my bed with me when they were scared or lonely. I was proud of them, and we were an extremely close unit. No one really missed having our parents around, because when they were home the environment was toxic.

I moved out when I was 16, and shortly after my parents took the kids and moved to another town, 80 miles away. I was ultimately disowned and kept from my siblings. I couldn't call to talk to them, they weren't allowed to visit. In 2008 I moved to California and that was that.

I think this is where any hesitation to have children stems from for me. Those were my kids, and I'm still mourning losing them.


*Just to be clear, the three youngest are all half-siblings. My "real" parents split when I was young, and my mom was pregnant at the same time as my stepmom. My mom moved back to California after the baby was born, the kids I took care of were my whole sister, and two half-siblings.

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Trollheart

Steph, I'm really sorry about that. You should be proud though that you did what you did, being a kind of surrogate parent for them. I'm sure they appreciate it, and miss you. Ever try catching them on Facebook or something?

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YorkeDaddy

Wow that's awful, I'm really sorry. I'd be devastated if I didn't get to see my little bro anymore, and I think he'd probably feel the same. One thing you can be sure of though is that they'll never forget you

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Oriphiel

Edit: Well shucks, now that I think about it, this post of mine below is kind of rude and antagonistic. I guess I never could walk away from some good intrigue. Anyway, i'm sorry for calling you a sneering hobgoblin, YorkeDaddy. Feel free to ignore me, since I don't want to derail this thread after Plankton and WWWP classed it up so nicely. Anyway, I posted it, so I guess it's only right that I leave it here and live with it.

I think you're just going to have to understand that not everyone in the world is like you. Some people have different mindsets, and there's nothing wrong with that. Saying that people who have an aversion to children are "disgusting" because children are just a natural part of life that they should learn to deal with, is just like calling someone who hates sex "disgusting" because they're rejecting something natural that is necessary for the perpetuation of our species; in the end, it's entirely pointless criticism that accomplishes nothing but bullying someone for being born with different values than you. At the end of the day, the person still has the same values that they did before, only now they feel like human garbage, and are even less trusting of the people around them then they were before. And even if you still insist on trying to "fix" them, and you really want to convince someone that they're making a mistake with their behavior, then at least talk to them like a fucking human being, instead of throwing insults at them and insinuating that they're some "stupid" freak of nature.

Seriously, the hypocrisy here is astounding. Lis gets called out for insulting people with children, calling them "breeders", and you respond by throwing insults right back at her. This is some school-yard level shit right here. So she got a little carried away with her choice of words, she and Ki have already made it clear that they made a mistake, and that they didn't mean to offend anyone.

Oh, come off it. Remember when you made that thread about suicide, and everyone criticized you for saying that "only cowards commit suicide"? How would you have felt if right after that, I kicked you while you were down by making a dumbass thread called "Suicide: You Gotta Love It!", all about the rich cultural traditions throughout the world of ritualistic suicide, and highlighting historical and mythological figures who sacrificed themselves for some great and noble purpose? And then some sneering little hobgoblin comes in and starts calling anyone who hates the general idea of suicide except in cases of terminal illness "disgusting" and "stupid"?

I'm not saying that you're intentionally bullying Ki and Lis, i'm just saying that they probably feel they're being paraded around for their difference from the social norm. Get where i'm coming from?

YorkeDaddy

So they're allowed to have a vile, deliberately and unjustifiably hateful opinion about a subset of human beings but I'm not allowed to voice how much it bothered me? Okay then whatever you say mate, but I definitely will not be apologizing.

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Trollheart

What a load of old bollocks! When did Ki and Lil ever apologise or justify their hatred of children? They didn't, not to me. And yes, I made this thread the morning after, but hoping specifically that they wouldn't post. Don't presume to tell me what was in my mind. I know it's a reaction to them, but that hurt me and angered me so, that anyone could be so insensitive and spread hatred like that. What's next? Apologising for Hitler? ****ing hell! You make it seem as if anyone can say anything no matter how hurtful or nasty it is, which is basically what Ki said too: if you find it offensive don't read it. What total crap! People have to have a sense of decency and realise that some of the things they say, and some of the vies they express may hurt, anger or upset or insult others, and think twice before they say them. I'm not saying Ki and Lil can't have their views, I just don't think it's right for her in particular to go around sneering at kids and people who have kids in her superior, I-am-better-than-you way. It ****ing kills me.

And for the love of god! Please use logic when posting. How could anyone make a thread called "You gotta love suicide?" Even if they did, remember that the thrust of my thread was not that I disagree with it, but that people should not be sent to jail for assisting those who feel they have to end their lives but can't themselves through disability. I would not start a thread called "I think suicide is the coward's way out". Not to mention, I apologised for using that phrase at the beginning and had the thread closed once it became clear that it was insulting and angering people.

Now you can say all you want about Ki and Lil's first amendment rights or whatever the **** it is you're saying to protect them, but I will not deal with someone who has that level of hatred against defenceless children and who calls parents cattle, and has not even the shred of decency required to actually apologise or qualify their remark. No, Lil would rather post in other threads about being drunk than come into mine and explain to me, fight with me, defend her corner or try to put her case. She never came in, Ki ran off when he saw I had quoted something he said which he obviously forgot he said. I don't care either way, but your defending their right of free speech and their "different way of looking at things" really smacks of apologism for the sake of it. Doesn't cut the slightest shard of ice with me. They are wrong: all children are not monsters. Some can be, but they (or she anyway) refuses to admit that and see the (so much) good about being a parent, and I will not deal with someone who has that narrow and entrenched a view on a hot button issue for me.

Also, I never said (as you appear to be trying to put the words in my mouth) that I didn't make this thread IN REACTION to them, but I certainly did NOT make it in the vain hope that I could "convert" them. I don't care about converting them. Their attitude (hers at least) sickens me and I want little to do with either. If somehow, somewhere along the line they change their minds, that's great, but that's not what this is about. This is to (as I already said) give a voice to those of us (the great majority) who do NOT hate children and who do not understand what to us is an irrational reaction to the very idea of offspring.

Finally, your own hypocrisy is the worst. You say "talk to them like human beings"? What was Ki's reaction to my bringing up the subject? He ****ed off didn't he, and Lil never even entered the thread. I expected maybe PMs, got none. How's that for treating someone like a human being? It is NOT, I repeat NOT OK to hate children. You use the euphemism "aversion" and if that's all it was I would not have a problem. Someone says "I don't like kids, would never have them", that's fine. It's this sneering hatred and this laughing at those who have or want kids, as if this makes them somehow sub-par human beings, that fires me and makes me want to ... you know what? I'll just stop there. I've made this thread in order to allow people to express their love or, or at least lack of hated of, kids, and you've gone and made me fume again by insisting I justify the creation of the thread, even though I already answered that in one of the first posts. Just leave me alone, all right? I don't want to talk to you. Stop being their apologist. If they want to talk to me I'm sure they're well capable of doing so without you fighting thier battles for them. I just want this to be a thread without drama but you seem determined to ensure it has it, and then ends up being closed again.

I don't want to be rude, but just leave it, ok? PM me if you must and I'll talk further, but stop derailing what has been a decent enough thread up to now.

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Psy-Fi

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Plankton

^^Pippi da hippie.

It's all perspective. Some people see it as their life beginning a new and exciting chapter.

All the 'firsts' are wonderful, but I wasn't there for when my daughter caught her first fish, which actually brought me to tears for some reason. I don't even fish all that much. I guess it's the fact that I actually missed it that hurts. One of the best things about being a parent to a grown child though now days, is when my daughter calls me up just to tell me she loves me, and that she's lucky to have me for a father. My heart just wants to jump out of my chest.

The most important role as a parent is teaching your child/children how to be compassionate, understanding, and nurturing. It gives them a solid foundation for a healthy life ahead of them, and I've done this by way of example. I've never used phrases like "Because I said so", or exerted my will upon my daughter just out of my own ego. When ever my daughter did something questionable, I'd kneel down to her level, look her in the eye, and calmly explain why she shouldn't do what ever it was she was doing. This was always met with an "Ok Dad." as she'd scamper away and that would be the end of it. I've never had the inkling, or the need to have to hit my daughter for punishment either. I see other parents do the opposite of these things, as well as other bad parenting habits, and then they ask why their kids are out of control. Children are like little sponge mirrors. They'll soak up all you show them, then they'll mirror all of that back to you tenfold.

I could really go on and on about parenting. In my short 21 years as being one, I have to say I wouldn't trade a minute of it for anything else in the universe.

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Cuthbert

You reckon it's wrong to hit your kids then? I was going to post a thread about it ages ago but since you brought it up.

simplephysics

Plank that is quite possibly the sweetest thing I've ever seen on this forum.

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