A reason why people remain religious

~~John Wilkes Booth~~ · 08-17-2014, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

This is the funniest post I've read all day

Thanks for confirming my hypothesis, Matt.

Stay awesome!

you really did call it. how did you know he was obsessed with anime?

~~MattMVS7~~ · 08-17-2014, 04:16 PM

Now I am going to present another argument here supporting my idea that people who have severe depression and such are better off with the delusional belief in heaven.

Now here's a main reason why I feel people are better off with the delusional belief of there being a God and an afterlife (including me) because there is the ultimate mockery of all of you as a human being which is that, in the future, they might find a way to become immortal and eliminate many types of suffering (diseases and such). Everyone in the future might live a nice life of immortality while you and everyone else are "unfortunate" in that you will not only live lives of suffering and possible disease, but will die and remain dead in the end after all that suffering and no special reward for that suffering in the end. All of it was for nothing in the end. One might have the attitude of "At least I did my best in life" or that "At least I've helped others suffering," but even that will be all for nothing in the end because when you are dead, the fact that you made the best of your life would no longer matter and also that anyone you've inspired or helped in life--they will just die in the end as well. No, it doesn't matter how much of a person you are and what your desires are in life, this pathetic universe considers you "unfortunate" and, for that very reason, you are going to suffer and die and remain dead. Therefore, this is one of the main reason why I consider this life a pathetic joke and an utter mockery to us as human beings. This is why I wish I instead wasn't an atheist and believed there was a God and an afterlife of immortality and eternal joy and feel that people are better off with this delusional belief. The only thing they are not better off with would just be the morals of religion--those are something I am against.

Here is a quote from someone who argued against my idea, but I have argued against this as well:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baruch' pid='627643' dateline='1408306825

Sounds to me like you need psychiatric help, but that's only my judgment working within the medical field which you will obviously ignore.

On a daily basis I help people reduce their suffering, that's one reason I enjoy medicine. The fact we all die in the end is irrelevant, at least we can make the journey more meaningful & at least help reduce some suffering in a practical way - in this life, in what we have evidence for - our living experience.
The key point is that meaning occurs in the moment and can be transient, within the actual life journey - not something that has to be eternal or at the end.
Consider the birth of a new born baby - for mum & dad that moment is meaningful, special and memorable but it is a transient moment which will pass. Its not like you have to wait for an afterlife to THEN find the meaning - that just misses the journey ! That is living blind ! That is being asleep.

Firstly death is what gives meaning to life - without death, just carrying on forever is utterly pointless and becomes meaningless. So I know an afterlife just distracts and postpones people's empowerment in this life which is all we have evidence for.
Why waste this life on a fantasy about the next ???
In any case - if you live a happy, meaningful & constructive life in this world, I'm sure you will be rewarded appropriately if there was an after life - however why waste time on imaginary rewards ?
Why postpone finding meaning in the journey & wait for the journey to end ?

When I say death gives meaning to life - I don't mean that I would necessarily want to die at say 70 or 100.
Perhaps extending life to 200 or 500 in good health may be greatly rewarding and a useful research project. Who knows, maybe life extension to 1000 years may be a great experience if one finds useful meaningful projects along the way.....
However living forever ? Even living for 1,000,000 years - ??? sounds incoherent for a variety of reasons and you will never reach any final goals - they just go on forever. Sounds like torture.
Eventually after 10,000 years you will be trying to create a death potion to reverse living forever once life becomes so meaningless going on and on and on and on and on....
A train journey can be a meaningful JOURNEY along the way, interesting interactions, relationships, sights, experiences etc. The train journey may also have some amazing stops you can get to along the way. The final stop is the end of the track and then the train disappears. So why not enjoy & find meaning, specialness, purpose within the journey ? Why wait until the end ?
...and what if the train stops DID go forever ? stop 4, stop 99, stop 9999, stop 1,000,000,000,000....Someone on the train is going to seriously want to make the train crash and give salvation to the passengers in the form of DEATH !

Anyway - why fear death, there is no experience so nothing to fear or be alarmed about. (however the process of dying painfully is distressing - especially with some types of cognitive impairment & physical + emotional pain) - hence why I am pro assisted suicide, when the time is right, just end it.

In any case - death is a powerful force in natural selection and why we are here in the first place - so death is extremely meaningful because without it you wouldn't be here.

Now in regards to that quote, first off, what about people who go through the absolute worst suffering in life and have virtually no positive feelings or outlook on life whatsoever (such as those with chronic severe depression who are treatment resistant and can never get better because there are such people)? I think very few, if any in this situation, would agree with this and what practically everyone else thinks regarding atheism and these depressed people would instead highly agree with what I just argued above in this post. I am one of these depressed people. Therefore, consider my arguments in support of those with severe depression and major problems in life and not just blissfully denying the existence of such people by saying things such as what that quote said about this one and only life being the greatest thing and such.

Second, I used to live a life of virtually no problems when I was younger. I went to school and then went home and played videogames all day. This is how my life was each day and I was perfectly fine with that and I would be perfectly fine with that now as an adult. I found great meaning in it and such. Therefore, I see no reason as to why I would not be fine and not find even greater meaning living forever. Since I'm just fine living a life without problems as well as living forever this way, there would be no reason that I would view an eternal life as something with less meaning as well as torture. It's not like my brain has some sort of limited capacity built into it in which I can only handle so much amount of living with no problems and such. It's the exact opposite of that.

The Batlord · 08-17-2014, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

Matt, you strike me as a kid who's probably watched too many animes. You know nothing of life, and it shows. You should go and live life for a while and then you can review your thoughts when you've actually got some life experience and see if it still makes sense. If they don't, there may be hope for you, and if you still feel the same, well .. then I think you're special only in a negative sense.

Totally true. You can definitely come to some well thought out conclusions about life in general merely by observation and a little bit of thinking, but without the experience to test out your theories they are unreliable. Not to mention the subtle little details and tidbits of knowledge about life, human relationships, yourself, etc that can only be picked up through life experience that you need to come to any real, paradigm-shifting revelations. I've had plenty of time to sit back and watch, and I think the objectivity gained through detachment has given me a perspective that is in some ways more honest than if I was really in the thick of life. I don't have as much of a dog in the fight as many people, so I am not as emotionally invested in a particular point of view (innate arrogance and narcissism aside), but my world view never matures half as quickly as when I'm actually immersed in everyday life.

RoxyRollah · 08-17-2014, 11:17 AM

Humility for exsample is not letting your ego accept praise for something you did because you felt the need to do. Not telling yourelf you are un worthy of praise.
Again you are confusing ****ty self esteem with humility.

And being knocked down by depression is not the same thing as say your house burning down and you needing to accept help from others when you have always been self reliant.

When you have become so full of pride, (dont confuse that with positive self esteem bc you seem to mix these things up) and arrogance and you get to a place where you realize you are not evetything your ego has lead you to belive THAT is humility.

There is medication for depression, there is not a pill you can take for arrogance, selfishness and pride.

You really just come across like the main characters in Alred Hitchcock' s rope.
I have actually stunned by the arrogance in your statements.

How old are you?

~~MattMVS7~~ · 08-17-2014, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoxyRollah

Humility for exsample is not letting your ego accept praise for something you did because you felt the need to do. Not telling yourelf you are un worthy of praise.
Again you are confusing ****ty self esteem with humility.

Have you ever heard the phrase "This is humiliating" and people say this in negative situations and use that phrase negatively? That, right there, says that humility is a negative thing here.

The Batlord · 08-17-2014, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

Have you ever heard the phrase "This is humiliating" and people say this in negative situations and use that phrase negatively? That, right there, says that humility is a negative thing here.

Man. We just been schooled.

**Janszoon** · 08-17-2014, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

Have you ever heard the phrase "This is humiliating" and people say this in negative situations and use that phrase negatively? That, right there, says that humility is a negative thing here.

And what about the fact that humility is generally perceived as positive attribute?

~~MattMVS7~~ · 08-17-2014, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

And what about the fact that humility is generally perceived as positive attribute?

To say that humility from an objective point of view is something good would be false. But to say it is something subjective and can be good or bad for different people would be true.

**Janszoon** · 08-17-2014, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

To say that humility from an objective point of view is something good would be false. But to say it is something subjective and can be good or bad for different people would be true.

So not going to answer the question then? Ok.

YorkeDaddy · 08-17-2014, 11:29 AM

I've been on internet forums for a very long time and this might just be the dumbest thread I've ever seen in my entire life. And for that, I congratulate you, MattMVS7.