Last chance to evacuate Earth...

ThePhanastasio · 04-06-2013, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P A N

i just watched the doc. it was pretty interesting to say the least, but i more or less think the same as i did with my first reply to the thread.

the only thing that might change my mind is advancements in nanotech. ray kurzweil wrote a book called The Singularity, in which he described the inevitability of humanity's merging with technology based on the exponential growth rate of information. he's basically convinced that we pretty much don't have an option as a species to avoid this occurring, and he makes some pretty interesting (if not strong) arguments to support his claim.

basically (like really basically) the idea is that the more we learn about the microcosm, the closer we get to a situation where we're given the choice on a personal level to adopt a body - or a fleet of bodies - which basically house the essence of the self. he thinks we can become robots with souls, essentially, made of of materials far yet from currently imagined. he also believes that leaps and bounds will be made in relatively short time, perhaps with the first to transcend biology doing so in the next 40-60 years.

if this were the case, i might think twice about sticking around on our doomed planet. but if this were the case, everything about this idea would be different. for instance, we would likely be able to engineer and construct our physical bodies in such a way which would negate the ship altogether other than to bring resources and building equipment to "Earth 2." "body rockets." or perhaps we could take all of the souls or essences or whatever you want to call them, convert them to a digital format and simply store all of them on a giant hard drive, and the ship would then only need to house a factory of some sort to churn out robotic bodies upon arrival, aside from essential personal who would run the thing. this would also limit the risks involved in not knowing exactly what our new planet is like and so on. but that being said, if we were robots, our atmospheric limitations would greatly decrease.

but this idea sort of changes the related questionnaire regarding this hypothetical situation, because, as kurzweil states in his book (and is also blatantly obvious) humans are likely to have some reservations with the notion of abandoning our physiology as we know it, to put it lightly.

for me though, i'd definitely be down for that. it would also mean being pretty much immortal, and i am more than interested in what humanity gets up to over the course of the next million years... though i am not bent on the idea to the point of obsession as some critics of kurzweil are convinced he is.

he's the guy who is the central figure in the documentary Transcendental Man, for anyone who has seen that or is interested in getting the scoop without haveing to read an epic tome filled with scientific jargon and what might come off as either brilliance or lunacy.

I do get that, but have no interest in that. Really, why should I want to live more than 90 years or so? Even if I'm able-bodied, I don't know what could occur to occupy my time. Just leave me on earth, genetically how I am, and let that be that.

Trollheart · 04-06-2013, 05:46 AM

There are of course a lot of pluses and minuses to essentially becoming immortal (how threads evolve, huh?)

the most important in some ways of which is the question of boredom as the years, centuries, millennia pass. HG Wells already tackled that in one form in the book "The time machine", where Man was so lazy and had everything done for him in the future that he basically became a slave to the tougher races that evolved along different lines. Star Trek of course built on this idea, but the central warning is that without anything to challenge or stimulate us, we may just bore ourselves out of existence.

There is of course, the "Vampire theory", where you get to see everything, do everything there is over the course of hundreds or even thousands of years, but again bordeom is likely to set in. Perhaps if we could manage to project our consciousnesses out into space and explore the galaxy without need of our bodies, but again, I don't know. Immortality definitely has its drawbacks.

But then, using these robot body things, certain fears and dangers are eliminated: no hunger (one would assume) no death, no disease (other than maybe rust!) and you would also hope no prejudice, though don't bet on it. Mind you, it would seem implicit that there would be no procreation and perhaps either no sex drive or unbridled sex, depending on how things worked out, so in my case I'd say the jury is spending a few more years in that hotel before coming to a verdict.

Must look for that doc, PAN, seems like it would be very interesting...

The Batlord · 04-06-2013, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P A N

i just watched the doc. it was pretty interesting to say the least, but i more or less think the same as i did with my first reply to the thread.

the only thing that might change my mind is advancements in nanotech. ray kurzweil wrote a book called The Singularity, in which he described the inevitability of humanity's merging with technology based on the exponential growth rate of information. he's basically convinced that we pretty much don't have an option as a species to avoid this occurring, and he makes some pretty interesting (if not strong) arguments to support his claim.

basically (like really basically) the idea is that the more we learn about the microcosm, the closer we get to a situation where we're given the choice on a personal level to adopt a body - or a fleet of bodies - which basically house the essence of the self. he thinks we can become robots with souls, essentially, made of of materials far yet from currently imagined. he also believes that leaps and bounds will be made in relatively short time, perhaps with the first to transcend biology doing so in the next 40-60 years.

if this were the case, i might think twice about sticking around on our doomed planet. but if this were the case, everything about this idea would be different. for instance, we would likely be able to engineer and construct our physical bodies in such a way which would negate the ship altogether other than to bring resources and building equipment to "Earth 2." "body rockets." or perhaps we could take all of the souls or essences or whatever you want to call them, convert them to a digital format and simply store all of them on a giant hard drive, and the ship would then only need to house a factory of some sort to churn out robotic bodies upon arrival, aside from essential personal who would run the thing. this would also limit the risks involved in not knowing exactly what our new planet is like and so on. but that being said, if we were robots, our atmospheric limitations would greatly decrease.

but this idea sort of changes the related questionnaire regarding this hypothetical situation, because, as kurzweil states in his book (and is also blatantly obvious) humans are likely to have some reservations with the notion of abandoning our physiology as we know it, to put it lightly.

for me though, i'd definitely be down for that. it would also mean being pretty much immortal, and i am more than interested in what humanity gets up to over the course of the next million years... though i am not bent on the idea to the point of obsession as some critics of kurzweil are convinced he is.

he's the guy who is the central figure in the documentary Transcendental Man, for anyone who has seen that or is interested in getting the scoop without haveing to read an epic tome filled with scientific jargon and what might come off as either brilliance or lunacy.

My question is if your consciousness gets uploaded to a computer would that be me or just a perfect copy of me? It's like the idea of a transporter. Your body is basically being destroyed (killed) and an exact replica is being created somewhere else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

There are of course a lot of pluses and minuses to essentially becoming immortal (how threads evolve, huh?)

the most important in some ways of which is the question of boredom as the years, centuries, millennia pass. HG Wells already tackled that in one form in the book "The time machine", where Man was so lazy and had everything done for him in the future that he basically became a slave to the tougher races that evolved along different lines. Star Trek of course built on this idea, but the central warning is that without anything to challenge or stimulate us, we may just bore ourselves out of existence.

There is of course, the "Vampire theory", where you get to see everything, do everything there is over the course of hundreds or even thousands of years, but again bordeom is likely to set in. Perhaps if we could manage to project our consciousnesses out into space and explore the galaxy without need of our bodies, but again, I don't know. Immortality definitely has its drawbacks.

But then, using these robot body things, certain fears and dangers are eliminated: no hunger (one would assume) no death, no disease (other than maybe rust!) and you would also hope no prejudice, though don't bet on it. Mind you, it would seem implicit that there would be no procreation and perhaps either no sex drive or unbridled sex, depending on how things worked out, so in my case I'd say the jury is spending a few more years in that hotel before coming to a verdict.

Must look for that doc, PAN, seems like it would be very interesting...

If we're talking about some magical form of immortality where I can't opt out, then I'd have my reservations, but if I can kill myself whenever life became too miserable, then I'd do it in a heartbeat. **** death.

P A N · 04-06-2013, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

My question is if your consciousness gets uploaded to a computer would that be me or just a perfect copy of me? It's like the idea of a transporter. Your body is basically being destroyed (killed) and an exact replica is being created somewhere else.

If we're talking about some magical form of immortality where I can't opt out, then I'd have my reservations, but if I can kill myself whenever life became too miserable, then I'd do it in a heartbeat. **** death.

from what i gather - and it's been a long time since i've read the book and at least a year or two since watching Transcendental Man - kurzweil seems to be under the impression that time will essentially make anything that we can dream up with our minds possible in reality. it's almost as though his outlook implies that everything which we imagine is an inevitability. so in his mind there are really no limits, and what we perceive as boundaries in the realm of how far we can go are really just stepping stones for those of us who refuse to stop pushing. he believes it's an inherent characteristic of the human spirit to feed our curiosity by way of creation. which is to say that in a way, it seems logical that creating copies would be a milestone of sorts, only to be succeeded by the eventuality of a total biological transcendence or reformatting of the human experience.

all of this of course does raise questions about the definitions concerning what it is to be alive. as in, just because it is a perfect copy, is there any difference, being that our memories and abilities and mannerisms and so on and so forth would all be included in the transfer? very interesting questions indeed, none of which i'm able to jump off the fence for as of yet.

and i would assume that there would naturally be a kill switch, even it meant getting a jetpack and flying into the nearest star. i really can't see (within some sort of democracy anyway) a member of humanity being obligated to stay alive and conscious for the rest of eternity. that just wouldn't make any sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

There are of course a lot of pluses and minuses to essentially becoming immortal (how threads evolve, huh?)

the most important in some ways of which is the question of boredom as the years, centuries, millennia pass. HG Wells already tackled that in one form in the book "The time machine", where Man was so lazy and had everything done for him in the future that he basically became a slave to the tougher races that evolved along different lines. Star Trek of course built on this idea, but the central warning is that without anything to challenge or stimulate us, we may just bore ourselves out of existence.

There is of course, the "Vampire theory", where you get to see everything, do everything there is over the course of hundreds or even thousands of years, but again bordeom is likely to set in. Perhaps if we could manage to project our consciousnesses out into space and explore the galaxy without need of our bodies, but again, I don't know. Immortality definitely has its drawbacks.

But then, using these robot body things, certain fears and dangers are eliminated: no hunger (one would assume) no death, no disease (other than maybe rust!) and you would also hope no prejudice, though don't bet on it. Mind you, it would seem implicit that there would be no procreation and perhaps either no sex drive or unbridled sex, depending on how things worked out, so in my case I'd say the jury is spending a few more years in that hotel before coming to a verdict.

Must look for that doc, PAN, seems like it would be very interesting...

i would seek solace in creation and exploration. we are basically talking about converting what it is to be a person into a data set. so as time went on, the need for a body or a vessel might altogether disappear, as you say, and any physical experience - in literally any part of the universe - could be travelled to via some sort of laser which would send said data set at the speed of light to an intended destination. and physical experiences themselves might be perceived quite differently at a point in our evolution such as this. i don't really see boredom becoming an issue when i could hang out on asteroids watching undulating nebula or stars being born... or a neutron star obliterating entire solar systems, which i must say, was some pretty awesome sh*t to see in that doc, trollheart.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stp

Somehow I think he is overestimating our capabilities. I can certainly see that we can enhance our abilities but to transfer our consciousness I find a bit fanciful. An interesting concept though. Much like the existence of an afterlife it's not something we will ever truly know. Even if we created a robot that mimicked us perfectly we would never know if it were truly conscious because we would remain in our fleshy coffin.

something to consider is that we just refuse to stop digging deeper, and we're mapping out the intricacies of such statements as "we are all just light and vibration." according to kurzweil, all of what exists can be expressed digitally, and nanotech will pave the way to expressing the subtleties of that digital arrangement in a way we can work with, augment and manipulate as we so desire.

i don't want to hijack this thread, but it's all very interesting to me. ray kurzweil (he's ALSO the same guy responsible for kurzweil synthesizers, and is a major player in real-time translation tech for cell phones enabling people speaking any language to speak in real time) is one interesting cat to keep an eye on if you're interested in future tech, and his imagination (although one never knows whether or not to jump on board with him for the sheer fact that some of the stuff her says seems like it's coming straight out of left field) is kind of amazing, and his accomplishments are many and testament to this. i kinda wish we could have him here on this thread to add to this conversation which trollheart has started.

it's all very sci-fi, which is always neat, but it's also kind real feeling, because as they say in the doc TH posted, it's been a good long while since outer space has decided to throw a real challenge our way... so long the odds may not really be in our favour. :/

Trollheart · 04-09-2013, 05:25 AM

I thought of something else that could happen (yes, shameless bump disguised as a new post!) and that is that you could have companies setting up, well, suicide camps where people who didn't get chosen to go on the ship but were terrified of facing death could choose to die the way they wanted to, painlessly and with all their family/friends around them, for a price. Kind of a "Soylent Green" thing. It's probably depressing to think of, but I could see it happening. Given the choice, would you rather die horribly (and wait for that death) or slip away peacefully and leave the planet to it?

Stephen · 04-06-2013, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P A N

robots with souls
.

Somehow I think he is overestimating our capabilities. I can certainly see that we can enhance our abilities but to transfer our consciousness I find a bit fanciful. An interesting concept though. Much like the existence of an afterlife it's not something we will ever truly know. Even if we created a robot that mimicked us perfectly we would never know if it were truly conscious because we would remain in our fleshy coffin.

Sequoioideae · 04-06-2013, 08:31 AM

Humanity has predicted the apocalypse since our inception. The end is the end, why fear death?

Mr. Charlie · 11-10-2013, 12:25 PM

I'm confident I'd be okay with being left behind to die (but I can't be certain of course, if the situation did materialise I might cry like a baby and throw a right little tantrum). I put quality of life before quantity of life. If we live well now, whether we die tomorrow or in 50 years, does it make any difference? When we look at the big picture? I'm not sure it does.

Dulce · 11-11-2013, 08:34 PM

mmm how about the aliens taking over.

Mr. Charlie · 11-11-2013, 08:59 PM

They have taken over. Look at government and police. No humanity to be seen.

04-06-2013, 05:46 AM	#2 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,996	There are of course a lot of pluses and minuses to essentially becoming immortal (how threads evolve, huh?) the most important in some ways of which is the question of boredom as the years, centuries, millennia pass. HG Wells already tackled that in one form in the book "The time machine", where Man was so lazy and had everything done for him in the future that he basically became a slave to the tougher races that evolved along different lines. Star Trek of course built on this idea, but the central warning is that without anything to challenge or stimulate us, we may just bore ourselves out of existence. There is of course, the "Vampire theory", where you get to see everything, do everything there is over the course of hundreds or even thousands of years, but again bordeom is likely to set in. Perhaps if we could manage to project our consciousnesses out into space and explore the galaxy without need of our bodies, but again, I don't know. Immortality definitely has its drawbacks. But then, using these robot body things, certain fears and dangers are eliminated: no hunger (one would assume) no death, no disease (other than maybe rust!) and you would also hope no prejudice, though don't bet on it. Mind you, it would seem implicit that there would be no procreation and perhaps either no sex drive or unbridled sex, depending on how things worked out, so in my case I'd say the jury is spending a few more years in that hotel before coming to a verdict. Must look for that doc, PAN, seems like it would be very interesting... __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

04-09-2013, 05:25 AM	#5 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,996	I thought of something else that could happen (yes, shameless bump disguised as a new post!) and that is that you could have companies setting up, well, suicide camps where people who didn't get chosen to go on the ship but were terrified of facing death could choose to die the way they wanted to, painlessly and with all their family/friends around them, for a price. Kind of a "Soylent Green" thing. It's probably depressing to think of, but I could see it happening. Given the choice, would you rather die horribly (and wait for that death) or slip away peacefully and leave the planet to it? __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

11-10-2013, 12:25 PM	#8 (permalink)
Mr. Charlie Shoo Thoughts Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: These Mountains Posts: 2,308	I'm confident I'd be okay with being left behind to die (but I can't be certain of course, if the situation did materialise I might cry like a baby and throw a right little tantrum). I put quality of life before quantity of life. If we live well now, whether we die tomorrow or in 50 years, does it make any difference? When we look at the big picture? I'm not sure it does.

11-11-2013, 08:34 PM	#9 (permalink)
Dulce WILDFIRE Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 232	mmm how about the aliens taking over.

11-11-2013, 08:59 PM	#10 (permalink)
Mr. Charlie Shoo Thoughts Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: These Mountains Posts: 2,308	They have taken over. Look at government and police. No humanity to be seen.