The Worst Trends Thread (house, effect, quote, artist, Lute)

[Mookie Wilson]

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

Healthy? Maybe, but it's not like the air isn't already polluted with a bunch of shit. Maybe it's time you put an end to this notion of yours that, because you don't smoke, you're going to live in unabridged happiness until the end of fuckin' time. It doesn't matter if people are smoking out in public or not, you're still going to be inhaling smog while you strut down the radon-awash road, guzzling a carcinogen-packed Coca-Cola, on your way to a friend's house for some nitrosamine-seething ham and beer, all under the hot, ultraviolet sun.

And, what? Life-improving? For who? You? It's quite the irritant for smokers. But you couldn't give a flying fuck about them, could you? No, you're content showcasing the same selfishness and inconsideration you condemn smokers for.

Seems you're not so polite or respectful yourself, are you? Y'know, I think I'll go outside later today and smoke half a pack just to spite you. I'll take pictures too! Maybe I'll go stand at that spot on the lake where you can see this really pretty power station in the background, polluting the environment. You know, the same power station that generates the electrical energy for people like you to switch your computers on, go online, and bitch about how smokers are ruining the environment.

wow, where do i begin. first of all i'm an environmental science graduate, i work for environment canada, so you're probably in over your head already. as for the facts about tobacco smoke, there's absolutely no other product on the market available to the public that contains more carcinogens. do you think that smokers have a right to spread smoke that has been proven to cause various types of cancers in a public place into the lungs of people who have chosen NOT to smoke? how is that logical? if you want to match up the amount of carcinogens in coke compared to that of cigarettes, go right ahead, the facts are in no way supportive of your arguments. the fact that you would proclaim that non-smokers have just as much a chance of developing cancer because they inhale smog is ludacris. if you had spent any time studying public health and the environment, you would understand how insulting that is. many of my closest colleagues are smokers and i have had countless meaningful conversations on the topic, so i would argue that i do know a great deal about smokers and their choices.

is it really asking that much for smokers to go outside to a designated area to smoke? i am respectful of public health, and smokers who feel that it is their right to cloud public spaces with known carcinogens is perhaps the largest disrespect faced by the general public today.

not everyone lives the way you describe life, we don't all chug coca cola while eating ham sandwiches with beer.

i wouldn't dare make the argument that smokers are ruining the environment, though they are effectively ruining the small, public environments where non-smokers have to coexist. your fantastical rants about energy and pollution are completely unfounded and contradictory. for instance, how can you point fingers at 'people like me' who need energy to turn on my computer? you are doing the exact same thing are you not? i've had too many experiences with ignorant folks like yourselve to really get too involved in this, if you have anything intelligent to add, please do, but if it's just more ranting, then don't bother. have a nice short life

[Wayfarer]

Hmm...how can I point fingers at people like you for who need energy to turn on your computers, when I'm doing the same thing? Wow, what a penetrating inquiry. Well, I wouldn't say that I'm pointing fingers, as I'm not a whiny, self-important asshole that goes around blaming other people for things. I am, however, an asshole that gets a kick out of accentuating hypocrisy, and in this case, it really wasn't all that difficult. You see, you non-smokers the ones bitching and moaning about 'saving' the environment and living a 'healthy' life, not me - and, the thing is, we're all contributing to this constant surge of cancer. Yes, we're ALL contributing, including you and every other non-smoker, yet you people seem to think you have the right to have the right to confine others to their homes, or fucking glass boxes in restaurants simply because they fancy doing something that might lead to your pretty little perfect lungs respiring a few carcinogens. I've got news for you. Countless other things around us in our daily lives are known to cause cancer. Yes, m'confrere, take a minute, let that sink in.

Alright, s'it in yet? Good. Ready for another mind-blower? Alright...some people smoke their entire lives...and still live to be ninety. Can you believe that one? Hell, on top of that, some people eat "right", exercise and avoid things that may cause cancer (as much as they can), and still die when they're thirty. Did you get that? Thirty years old!

And now for the most stunning fact of all...are you ready? Are you sure? Okay, here goes...

There is no way of knowing who will be able take in all of those carcinogens and live to be ninety, nor is there any way of knowing who will live as "healthy" as they can and still end up with cancer - the only certainty is that everyone's going to die eventually. Yes, I know. It's heart-stopping, isn't it? Oh, sorry...heartbreaking? Wouldn't want to augment anyone's fear of death - that might lead to you vainglorious, uncultivated half-wits doing even more bitching and whining and infantile finger-pointing than you already do, and I'm really getting tired of that...

I mean, don't you think it's time people just accept life as it is and, well...live it? No condemnation, no bloodshed, no deception, just...people...living? So what if the guy next to you likes to light up every now and then? Sure, it may be unhealthy, but you're at risk of getting cancer anyway, aren't you? Be it from the radon gas coming out of the ground, or the ultraviolet rays coming out of the sky. Certainly no need to look down on that smoker next to you, because if you look past him and into the horizon, you might just see a factory emanating some cancer-causing pollutants of its own - a factory that more than likely manufactures or generates something you use in your own life.

[jibber]

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

Hmm...how can I point fingers at people like you for who need energy to turn on your computers, when I'm doing the same thing? Wow, what a penetrating inquiry. Well, I wouldn't say that I'm pointing fingers, as I'm not a whiny, self-important asshole that goes around blaming other people for things. I am, however, an asshole that gets a kick out of accentuating hypocrisy, and in this case, it really wasn't all that difficult. You see, you non-smokers the ones bitching and moaning about 'saving' the environment and living a 'healthy' life, not me - and, the thing is, we're all contributing to this constant surge of cancer. Yes, we're ALL contributing, including you and every other non-smoker, yet you people seem to think you have the right to have the right to confine others to their homes, or fucking glass boxes in restaurants simply because they fancy doing something that might lead to your pretty little perfect lungs respiring a few carcinogens. I've got news for you. Countless other things around us in our daily lives are known to cause cancer. Yes, m'confrere, take a minute, let that sink in.

Alright, s'it in yet? Good. Ready for another mind-blower? Alright...some people smoke their entire lives...and still live to be ninety. Can you believe that one? Hell, on top of that, some people eat "right", exercise and avoid things that may cause cancer (as much as they can), and still die when they're thirty. Did you get that? Thirty years old!

And now for the most stunning fact of all...are you ready? Are you sure? Okay, here goes...

There is no way of knowing who will be able take in all of those carcinogens and live to be ninety, nor is there any way of knowing who will live as "healthy" as they can and still end up with cancer - the only certainty is that everyone's going to die eventually. Yes, I know. It's heart-stopping, isn't it? Oh, sorry...heartbreaking? Wouldn't want to augment anyone's fear of death - that might lead to you vainglorious, uncultivated half-wits doing even more bitching and whining and infantile finger-pointing than you already do, and I'm really getting tired of that...

I mean, don't you think it's time people just accept life as it is and, well...live it? No condemnation, no bloodshed, no deception, just...people...living? So what if the guy next to you likes to light up every now and then? Sure, it may be unhealthy, but you're at risk of getting cancer anyway, aren't you? Be it from the radon gas coming out of the ground, or the ultraviolet rays coming out of the sky. Certainly no need to look down on that smoker next to you, because if you look past him and into the horizon, you might just see a factory emanating some cancer-causing pollutants of its own - a factory that more than likely manufactures or generates something you use in your own life.

first off, to mookie wilson; Thank you for producing an intelligent argument and not resorting to petty name calling.

Now on to wayfarer:

One of your main arguments is still that there are a huge list of other contributors to air pollution, and yet he has already stated that he is talking about the small confined environments in a smoke filled bar or restaurant, and not the environment as a whole. In case you didn't realize, that made your main argument pretty much a moot point. As for your rant on ultra-violet rays coming from the sun, skin cancer is only a risk if you spend hours a day outside in the bright sun or under tanning lamps. Human beings were meant to live in the outdoors to some extent; we are not mole people. Our skin can protect against a certain amount of UV rays, so your little side note about UV rays being more harmful than cigarette smoke is really quite ridiculous. I can slap on some factor 15 and put on a hat. I can NOT however, stop breathing around smokers filling the air in a restaurant to prevent second hand smoke from entering my lungs.

Your other impassioned argument certainly is interesting. I'm sure you were going for something along the lines of the idea that "something's going to get you in the end, so you may as well enjoy the ride well it lasts." That's all well and good, unfortunately, some of us would rather take on other forms of "living in the moment" rather than having cyanide laced smoke blown into the air I'm breathing by someone like you who isn't as concerned about their health. I take vitamins, eat well, and exercise at least twice a week, because I enjoy doing things that require a high level of health and fitness. I certainly don't believe that doing these things make me immune to cancer, but I figure I may as well make my chances for a long healthy life as high as possible. If you want to fill your lungs with tar, that's entirely your decision. Just don't do in a confined interior space, where other people who have chosen not to smoke have to inhale that garbage. And to answer your question, no, not everyone who condemns you for smoking is as health conscious as I am, and yes, I consider the people who stuff themselves with Big Macs until their arteries slam shut just as bad as smokers when it comes to healthy choices. The difference is that their fried chicken isn’t making my arteries clog up by being in the vicinity. Smoke if you want, but years of research have shown that smoking is without a doubt incredibly unhealthy. I believe smokers should stay outside for the same reason I don’t eat fast food; I want to be as healthy as I can be.

[Mookie Wilson]

great points jibber, i'm not gonna ellaborate much on what he said back to me because you did it quite nicely. i'm just gonna sum it up with this wayfarer: your point - There is no way of knowing who will be able take in all of those carcinogens and live to be ninety, nor is there any way of knowing who will live as "healthy" as they can and still end up with cancer - the only certainty is that everyone's going to die eventually" is perhaps the most rudimentary misnomer one can have when attempting to discuss health and diseases. the study of epidemiology requires forgetting about individual cases where "some people smoke their entire lives...and still live to be ninety" and studying public health in a SCIENTIFIC manner where populations and variables affecting health are examined as a whole. if you had any academic training at all, you wouldn't have made that statement because it's so very frowned upon by doctors, epidemiologists, and geographers alike. no doctor would EVER say to a patient, "You know, it's not that bad to smoke, cuz some people smoke their whole lives and live to be ninety."

you seem to be quite confident in proclaiming, "the most stunning fact of all", but what really qualifies you to make such statements? do you really think that i am unaware of the gaps that exist in the study of cancers? of course we don't yet know just how many carcinogens it takes to kill each individual person, and again, doctors and health professionals are NOT concerned with that because it's entirely unscientific and unwise to disregard warnings because we simply don't know lethal dosages yet.

and please, stop with the radon-gas argument, scientists hardly know anything about radon gas yet, let alone it's ability to cause cancers in such a rampant fashion as you suggest.

and when did i say anything about 'saving the environment'? again, that's a lay phrase that is avoided by those professionally involved in the field. as for confining people to their homes, that is a poor assumption on your part. please stop acting like you're being so oppressed, you live in the most free part of the world so don't insult people who suffer from REAL oppression everday by complaining that you can't light up a cigarette anywhere you please. where i come from people ask each other if it bothers those around them if they smoke. that's just basic common courtesy and concern for others' health. what do you have to say to the millions of smokers who UNDERSTAND that it's extremely unhealthy and bothersome to the people around them?

[Wayfarer]

Well, looks like I'm the only one debating with you two here, so I can skip the pre-argument dicksucking and get straight to the point:

jibber -

I didn't think Mookie was speaking solely of small, confined environments, as he said, "Ontario has a ban on smoking in public places now anyway, so I think that's a step in the right direction." If I was wrong, well, sorry, my mistake. But anyway, yes, skin cancer is really the only risk that appertains to UV rays, but last time I checked, skin cancer still qualifies as cancer, and at no point did I state that UV rays are more harmful than cigarette smoke - I merely stated that they can be harmful.

What irritates me moreso than anything is that you people make it sound like we're pinning you down to the ground, plugging your noses and exhaling directly into your mouths. We're not. I cannot, for the life of me, register what was so horribly wrong with smoking/non-smoking sections in restaurants. Me smoking a cigarette thirty feet away from you really isn't going to have much of an effect on you, if at all. But evidently, that system wasn't good enough for you. You had to get fucking glass boxes installed for us to sit in, which was insulting enough. Now we're not allowed to smoke in the damn places at all. Can you not grasp the ridiculousness of that? Ninety percent of the food you get in restaurants is more than likely going to do more damage to you than some guy smoking a cigarette thirty feet away anyway. What we need to do is come up with more creative solutions to these kinds of problems than outright banning. I mean, when you pin it right down to one side having to go out of their way to please the opposition, the non-smokers will surely always say, "Smoke if you want, just don't do it wherever I happen to go," whereas the smokers will say, "I'll smoke if I want to, and if you have that much of a problem with it, go somewhere else." Basically, non-smokers want everyone to move right out of their way - forge a clear path for them, and the smokers refuse to move, and think that if anyone has that big a problem with them, they can go around. Both points of view are completely understandable, so whatever happened to compromise? The whole smoking/non-smoking section thing seemed like an alright compromise to me. Maybe restaurants could install far better ventilation? I don't know, but this glass box/flat-out banning bullshit is just, like I said, insulting and wholly unreasonable.


Mookie -

If, thus far, epidemiologists have disregarded the fact that many, many people have smoked their entire lives and lived to be ninety, and that many, many people have tried to stay as healthy as they could and died at a young age, then, to me, epidemiological studies thus far are flawed, at least to some extent. When you say, "individual cases," it's almost as if you're suggesting that it's a highly extraordinary scenario, when in reality, it isn't. It's something that should absolutely be considered, as far as I'm concerned, and it's something that needs to be looked into much more than it apparently has been. How can you keep telling me that my thoughts are "unscientific" and go on to say that scientists have been disregarding particular facts? It's science - you can't pick and choose. All facts must be taken into consideration.

A Citizen's Guide to Radon | Publications | Radon | Indoor Air Quality | Air | US EPA
"Radon is estimated to cause about 21,000 lung cancer deaths per year, according to EPA's 2003 Assessment of Risks from Radon in Homes (EPA 402-R-03-003)."

Apparently, radon gas kills more people each year than drunk driving. I'd say that's definitely something to acknowledge.

And sure, it's always real easy to tell people to "stop acting so oppressed" when the laws are in your favour, isn't it? If people were allowed to smoke wherever they wanted, whenever they wanted, I'm sure you'd be acting rather "oppressed" yourself, don't you think?

[tdoc210]

smoking menthol is like an air mint, how could it be bad,
i recommend at least 40 a day!

[Wayfarer]

Ahah.

Menthols = the Bacardi Breezer of cigarettes.

[Alo]

^ So you're claiming it's not cool to smoke those? Does it really matter so much?

And to add to the whole anti-smoking discussion. I've only heard the argument about the cigarets being bad for your health. You know what else makes being smoked around irritating? Sit back, I've got a few...

After going to a bar, where there was a lot of smoke, I notice the following about myself:
- My clothes stink even after a wash
- I have twice as many zits as the day before
- My hair becomes frizzy, and dry
- With some bad luck, I have cigaret burns on my clothes

Ever eaten in a restaurant where smoking was allowed? Please don't even make the enquiry that your food tasted good anyway.

Ever had an asthma attack thanks to someone smoking next to you?

Ever have a grandfather die of a heart attack thanks to smoking?

Ever seen the wallpaper of someone's house, after they've smoked a few years?

How about the skin of someone who smokes? Or the way they can't enjoy good food because they can't taste as well as they used to?

Ever stop and think about that? Before smoking? Or smoking around others for that matter? I used to smoke, but I really saw change in my body, so I stopped. I can see why people smoke, sure it's soothing, and sometimes it just makes you feel good. But there are more ways to do so than smoking.

[Wayfarer]

Originally Posted by Alo

^ So you're claiming it's not cool to smoke those? Does it really matter so much?

I was joking around with him FFS.

No, I haven't had an asthma attack because of someone smoking next to me. Have you ever had someone whine about how she had an asthma attack next to you because you were smoking, as if she couldn't just get up and walk away for a minute if it were actually causing her that much discomfort?

No, I don't think I have had a grandfather die because of smoking. Ever had to listen to someone whine about their dead grandparents and attribute every health problem they ever had to smoking, seemingly oblivious to the fact that people get old and they often begin to have health problems, whether or not they smoke?

Ever seen the wallpaper of someone's house after a few years, regardless of whether or not they smoke? Shit gets dirty. It happens.

Ever had to listen to some arrogant twat tell you that you can't enjoy good food anymore because you smoke, when in reality, you enjoy certain foods just as much as you ever have?

And yes, I have eaten in a restaurant in which smoking was allowed, and I'd like to once again bring up my point about people smoking thirty feet away from you having little to no effect whatsoever. I'd also like to bring up a new point: if you absolutely cannot deal with someone smoking a cigarette at such a distance away from you, to the extent that you feel it's ruining your meal in any way, you are the one with a problem, and you should be the one not sitting in that restaurant, not the smoker.

[mr. goth glam]

I like that I started this argument.

I'm easily amused, so this pleases the hell out of me.