Size Rise

Dr_Rez · 04-16-2012, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anticipation

In my experience with "society" and it's influences on the human condition, I'm extremely skeptical that any sort of conscious organized effort to educate or actually increase awareness of the way the world actually is has ever occurred. Society is more about appearances, about the dichotomy between symbolic and non-verbal pressures that most people aren't aware dictate everything they do, with the denial that we are a self-destructive species. Mankind has never contributed a single beneficial thing to the planet. Our very nature is to consume, destroy, and to indulge in vacuous and vapid self-aggrandizing in an attempt to mask the existential crisis that is our place in the universe. Our species is constantly fighting a battle with ourselves to validate our existence. We exhibit almost no symbiotic tendencies aside from superfluous interactions with each other that more often than not lack any sort of acknowledgement of our actions or their repercussions. So the prevalence of self-destructive and harmful activities that we fill our days with is a logical extension of this situation, with society only perpetuating the motivations to throw your life away, e.g. the pursuit of material items as an ultimate goal, the importance of dominating your fellow man, the lack of concern for the environment, other people or their wellbeing. If your life is constant negative reinforcement and the promulgation of such ideals as the glorification of idiots, the endorsement of the horribly detrimental actions of our species, and the justifications of essentially everything we do, how can you rise up if you do not shred the bonds of society? Unfortunately the idea that civilization can be a support system is illusory, unless you're living in some far-flung tribe devoid of any sort of widespread media and have maintained the hunter-gatherer mentality of antiquity.

In short, society is a web and we're the flies trapped in it. The more we struggle to make it work and to break free, the more we become entrenched in its paralyzing effects. Just my opinion.

This was a fantastic post. Actually probably the best I have seen from you to this date. I agree with this 100% except for one thing. While nearly every society today and throughout history has not given back to the earth or even tried to leave it as it was found, their ARE exceptions to the rule. A prime example in this very country is the Native Americans. They were known for treating the earth as it was a living breathing being.

It is simply a lifestyle choice. Either you have things, or you dont. Obviously the acquisition of stuff hurts the earth.

Freebase Dali · 04-18-2012, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

Certainly capitalist society is to blame to some extent for obesity. It creates class differences in resources and what we eat and, as you write, every day we are constantly bombarded with commercials trying to tempt us into making bad lifestyle choices. I feel like when it comes down to each one of us, I generally think we have to take personal responsibility. But when we're talking about obesity as an epidemic and how it taxes a nation etc, then one can blame society and hopefully exercise ones political power in order to change things.

I'm sorry if I'm late to this particular party, but I was browsing this thread and saw this post, and I wanted to try and understand your thinking behind it.
I apologize in advance if I misunderstand what you were trying to say.

I live here in a capitalist country (USA), and I support myself and have been doing so for years. Out of my own personal experience, I've noticed that healthy food like vegetables, non-processed, non-packaged foods, ingredients, etc. are not out of my reach as someone who has always been technically below the poverty line (and still currently as a student). In fact, I can provide for myself FAR BETTER by eating home-cooked, healthy meals that stretch FAR longer than a Burger-King value meal at almost the same price when broken down into ratios.
In fact, if I were to go to the grocery and strictly choose processed, packaged meals instead of individual ingredients that allow me to control content and output, I would pay around 2 or 3 times as much as I would otherwise.
How do I know this? Because I've been on both sides of that fence, and with some education and experience, I learned that there's a better way to live than relying on meals in a box, fast food, and all the other crap people shove into their faces in this country because it's just more "convenient" to do so. And guess what, I still income below the poverty line, and I'm a full time student, and I have money to pay the bills, emergency funds, and more money to play with.

So, in my experience, I've learned that the problem isn't what's available and not available. The problem is laziness. The problem is not being educated about how to get the most out of your money and buy healthy food, and how to make it last so that you're not purchasing meals based on whims and convenience.
America's problem isn't capitalism in that regard. It's Americans that are simply too lazy, uncaring and uneducated to actually do something good for themselves because it requires work and it requires a degree of self-control.

Believe me... Us lower-tier Americans can afford good food. I don't have Food stamps, and I don't collect unemployment. I don't have any sort of welfare. All I receive is an earned housing allowance from my GI bill while I go to school, and an additional pell grant per semester. WELFARE RECIPIENTS INCOME MORE THAN I DO. And somehow, I can buy healthy food and live right... (save for my drinking, of course) With plenty money to spare!
I'm guessing you're beginning to see the picture here.
It's about personal choices.
The only situation where personal choice is no longer an option for this is in a situation where a government is dictating what you're allowed to eat.
Yea, maybe that's the only way to get some of these people to straighten their lives out, but personally, I'd rather not be forced to live in a world where my decisions are made for me simply because of the inability of others to make them on their own.

Astronomer · 04-19-2012, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AwwSugar

Word.
And where have you been?
Hay gurl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Rez

The Lateralus.. She Lives!

Guybrush · 04-19-2012, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freebase Dali

I'm sorry if I'm late to this particular party, but I was browsing this thread and saw this post, and I wanted to try and understand your thinking behind it.
I apologize in advance if I misunderstand what you were trying to say.

I live here in a capitalist country (USA), and I support myself and have been doing so for years. Out of my own personal experience, I've noticed that healthy food like vegetables, non-processed, non-packaged foods, ingredients, etc. are not out of my reach as someone who has always been technically below the poverty line (and still currently as a student). In fact, I can provide for myself FAR BETTER by eating home-cooked, healthy meals that stretch FAR longer than a Burger-King value meal at almost the same price when broken down into ratios.
In fact, if I were to go to the grocery and strictly choose processed, packaged meals instead of individual ingredients that allow me to control content and output, I would pay around 2 or 3 times as much as I would otherwise.
How do I know this? Because I've been on both sides of that fence, and with some education and experience, I learned that there's a better way to live than relying on meals in a box, fast food, and all the other crap people shove into their faces in this country because it's just more "convenient" to do so. And guess what, I still income below the poverty line, and I'm a full time student, and I have money to pay the bills, emergency funds, and more money to play with.

So, in my experience, I've learned that the problem isn't what's available and not available. The problem is laziness. The problem is not being educated about how to get the most out of your money and buy healthy food, and how to make it last so that you're not purchasing meals based on whims and convenience.
America's problem isn't capitalism in that regard. It's Americans that are simply too lazy, uncaring and uneducated to actually do something good for themselves because it requires work and it requires a degree of self-control.

Believe me... Us lower-tier Americans can afford good food. I don't have Food stamps, and I don't collect unemployment. I don't have any sort of welfare. All I receive is an earned housing allowance from my GI bill while I go to school, and an additional pell grant per semester. WELFARE RECIPIENTS INCOME MORE THAN I DO. And somehow, I can buy healthy food and live right... (save for my drinking, of course) With plenty money to spare!
I'm guessing you're beginning to see the picture here.
It's about personal choices.
The only situation where personal choice is no longer an option for this is in a situation where a government is dictating what you're allowed to eat.
Yea, maybe that's the only way to get some of these people to straighten their lives out, but personally, I'd rather not be forced to live in a world where my decisions are made for me simply because of the inability of others to make them on their own.

I think you are misinterpreting a bit. First off, I've already made the point about personal responsibility and am not solely blaming society for obesity. I simply wanted to highlight the distinction of when I think we should be talking about personal responsibility and when we can blame society. The fact is market forces in today's capitalist society (whichever one it is) will come up with ways to get you to eat unhealthy food. Perhaps they put growth hormones in beef to make cattle grow quicker and maximize profits and these hormones, when consumed by people, contribute slightly to an overall increase in obesity. Perhaps a burger chain will get the cheapest meat from poor countries so that they can reduce the price of a burger, making the choice to pick one up a little simpler and so contribute to obesity in another small way, even if it's by appealing to peoples' laziness (it's so cheap and easy to just get a burger vs. making one from scratch).

There are market forces promoting healthy living too, but most businesses will probably try to maximize profits and so if that means f.ex using those hormones in beef production, then most probably won't choose not to. Either way, there are market forces out there actively trying to make you do bad lifestyle decisions.

So my point was there are many things in society that promotes obesity, whatever they are, and so when addressing obesity as an epidemic or when you're complaining about chubbys living off your taxes, then you can blame society (and not put blame on any one singled out obese person).

A side note about classes, I think someone else here had a source saying that classes are differentiated also in diet and I just assume that's true to some degree in most "classy" societies.

~~Rubato~~ · 04-16-2012, 09:52 AM

I gave up smoking after god knows how many years, I could be an arrogant prick about it and look down my nose at those still hooked to their cancer sticks, but I don't because I've been through it and know how difficult kicking a bad habit can be, I'd say I owe most of it to having enough free time to change my daily routine, I'm confident that most people can't afford that same luxury.

Preaching does nothing to help those caught in unhealthy routines, I'm fairly sure most of them don't need you to point it out to them that they could lose a few pounds or they could make a few changes to their diet. It takes a bit optimism for someone to give enough ****s about their own health to get through a change in lifestyle, which would be stressful enough without a job or kids to work around. Making them feel guilty about it certainly won't help them find that optimism.

GuitarBizarre · 04-16-2012, 10:10 AM

Well, I can't say I like the contentious ground we are covering at the moment, but I'm glad to see that everyone in the thread has finally accepted that people can look good with a little extra on them.

Because dear sweet crap that took forever.

FETCHER. · 04-17-2012, 11:50 AM

HHBH, you're ideas of losing weight are completely unrealistic, anyone who followed your advice would be as much as a moron as you are. Your views sound like they're coming from someone who's battling anorexia, atleast be realistic bro.

Astronomer · 04-18-2012, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanilla

Are you guys as callus towards big girls?

Just to flip the coin, being big isn't the size issue all the time. Skinny gals cop it too. Like this controversial picture:

Which just tells naturally slim girls that they aren't attractive.

How about accepting the fact that everyone is different, individual, etc, blah blah blah? Fat girls get hated on and skinny girls get hated on too... it's pretty fucked. People should just get over it.

Dr_Rez · 04-18-2012, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lateralus

...

The Lateralus.. She Lives!

Arya Stark · 04-18-2012, 10:24 AM

Word.
And where have you been?
Hay gurl

04-16-2012, 09:52 AM	#5 (permalink)
~~Rubato~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Ireland Posts: 230	I gave up smoking after god knows how many years, I could be an arrogant prick about it and look down my nose at those still hooked to their cancer sticks, but I don't because I've been through it and know how difficult kicking a bad habit can be, I'd say I owe most of it to having enough free time to change my daily routine, I'm confident that most people can't afford that same luxury. Preaching does nothing to help those caught in unhealthy routines, I'm fairly sure most of them don't need you to point it out to them that they could lose a few pounds or they could make a few changes to their diet. It takes a bit optimism for someone to give enough ****s about their own health to get through a change in lifestyle, which would be stressful enough without a job or kids to work around. Making them feel guilty about it certainly won't help them find that optimism.