The appeal to pedophilia?
 

I've often wondered...why do you think pedophiles develop such corrupt preferences in sexuality?

I know there are statistically significant correlations between histories of child abuse and abusers themselves, but it HAS TO START FROM SOMEWHERE.

So what's the motivation?

I think it's the same with necrophiles and pyromaniacs and murderers. Or probably even the same as people who enjoy sex in public, SM or Sex with animals.
Some twisted 'error' in their brains. Sometimes born that way, sometimes triggered by certain experiences in the past.

Nevertheless, I think in a lot of people's minds there's quite a lot going on that really definitely has to remain a fantasy. I think in a lot of cases it has more to do with the question whether a person can behave himself, than the actual sexual preference.

This, of course, is speculation.

Graduating Penn State.

Wow, that was clever. Did you come up with that all by yourself?

Sexual repression as children, ie severe punishment for normal kiddy bodily curiosity.

I did, thank you.

Yes, I certainly agree. I think there must be some common territory that provides a stimulus for that error to occur...but I don't think it's a genetic aberration at all. That would imply that we should ACCEPT them for having those dispositions instead of ostracizing them from the rest of society (as I feel we should).

I know this is a touchy subject but it's one that needs being talked about. As we become a less reactive and more preventative society, we nourish in spiritual unity.

Can I get your headshot while you're in here?

Is that a threat?

Haha, bit slow on the uptake?


South Park - Penn State Scandal - YouTube

Very slow indeed. :)

I feel as though we should accept them in a way. We shouldn't accept them in society as they're capable of molesting our children. There's no way I'm going to defend those actions. But I do think most (probably all?) peadophiles are really very sad, sick people who didn't ask to be like they are.

I've always had this thought about any sort of punishment for massmurderers, rapists and so on; They didn't ask to be like that, sometimes it's even fair to say; they didn't DESERVE to be like that.
I am very much in favor of locking them up for the safety of our children and/our ourselves, but not to punish them.
Catch my drift?
I know this is a very risky thing to say as it's far from generally accepted. But I am not generally accepted anyway :).

I just like to add once more that I agree that, in no way, murderers or molesters should be free. They should be kept in captivity for their entire lives. But I'm still not sure if punishment is the right way to go.

Take, for example, terrorists, right?
They are doing afwul things, but they are in the end brainwashed .
Of course I am glad when a terrorist planning a terrorist attack that might kill hundreds of people, is killed. But I still think; He's a human, whatever he's planning to do, he's still a human. And I still feel as if it's not quite right to destroy someone's life, just because this person destroyed other lives. It seems... equally bad, somehow.

I think SK's got a bit of a point. Hating these people isn't going to change them. We shouldn't support their interests by any means, but I think it would do much more good if we offered them psychological help to keep these urges in check.

^Breakthrough.
I was expecting to be called a complete nutter.
Thanks for actually reading what I meant to say. I know it may be a different vision, but I'm not a complete lunatic ;).

Psychological help isn't what I'm thinking of. Overhere it's usual to offer these people forced psychological help before they're allowed to leave jail after... loads of years. But still a lot of them go back to their old behaviour. I don't support ever reintroducing them to the public again. Please keep them behind shut doors, it's not worth the risk. But don't treat them like criminals. Because they're really very sad, sick, sorry people who didn't ask to be like they are either.

You seem under the assumption that all pedophiles act on their urges and harm children. I'm not saying none of them do, but there are many such people who either restrict their interests to imagery (which is still supporting a despicable system), or who refuse to satisfy their urges whatsoever.

I've spoken to someone who falls into the latter category. He was sexually attracted to children, yes, but didn't permit himself to be anywhere near them nor did he indulge in third party abuse (kiddie porn). He saw a therapist regularly to help him understand himself.

I'm not excusing the behaviour by any means, but there are people out there "afflicted" with pedophilia who understand the harm their sexual preference can have on children, and who (however creepy it is) love children too much to indulge themselves and bring harm to them.

I don't necessarily think we should lose sight of the fact that these are people. They need help, and monitoring. Every precaution should be taken to protect children, but that doesn't end with dehumanizing people.

That said, I am supportive of chemical castration. I don't consider it dehumanizing, because I think that most people should be chemically castrated anyhow. :laughing:

Yes, to be honest, I've never seen the problem with that.
It obviously is an interest that shouldn't be encouraged, but if the pics already exist, how is it still wrong to look at them?
Please understand; I may miss something here, I'm not saying it ISN'T wrong, I just say I don't know what harm it can do.

That's a brave thing to do.
Then there's the difference between being attracted to children and actually keeping these kind of websites in the air by supporting them.
If that's the case, it is indeed a bad thing.

Every human is one human. If it were up to me, the big criminals in this world like Bin Laden and Ghadaffi didn't HAVE to be killed. I know this was probably the only way, but I don't think they should be killed because of what they did. They should be stopped by any means with what they were doing and murder is obviuosly the safest way, as crazy as it may seem.

Whenever I say something like this, people often go "Well if it's like that no one is guilty of anything when it comes to you". And that is indeed the case.

Haha, I am sometimes ashamed of men. Not saying I'm not one of them every now and then. But we sure follow our dicks sometimes...
I sometimes hear stories of my female friends, about their boyfriends that make me really sad. Even though I know they're good guys, they sure know how to hurt their girlfriend now and then. It's strange how relationships work. But err, offtopic :)

In regards to this particular point, I think that viewing the images is A) fueling their own desires and therefore dangerous to their careful self-restraint, and B) encouraging a harmful industry. The cycle of abusive video and photography is fueled in part by demand. It's beneficial to reduce demand wherever possible.

A) Not sure, maybe if they can 'do is themselves' they'll stay away from the kids
B) If they are indeed encouraging a harmful industry by looking at these pictures, this should definitely be stopped. I wasn't sure if they were.
I mean, if I illegaly download music, I don't support any industry, right?

I like cute, short chicks, but I don't think that makes me a pedo. I can't stand being around kids, way too damn loud sometimes. Well, anyway I think it has to do with kids being innocent (in terms of sexuality) and pedophiles like to take advantage of it (and get off on it). When I think about it, it makes me feel a bit ill. The fact that people find innocence to be attractive to the point of obsession.

Let me put it this way. Does looking at pornography satisfy you completely, or make you want to have sex? It's probably the same deal. They probably try to avoid arousal wherever possible.

As for child porn, supply and demand. I really didn't want to compare pedophiles to vegetarians, but I feel now I need to give you a better analogy than I have. Vegetarians often don't support the meat industry (abuse), and do so by eliminating their consumption of meat products. It may seem like a drop in the ocean, but when enough people take this attitude, it reduces the overall demand for meat, and thus the number of animals being harmed.

Sorry to all vegetarians on MB for using you in a crude analogy. You're not pedophiles.

Hahaha, love that last sentence. The serious tone in it makes me laugh out loud.

You know, I can understand guys who see a 16 or 17 year old and think 'looks nice...'. This probably has happened to me before and wel yeah, who gives a ****. But apart from thinking so, I never tried anything. But actual kids? Even if you do have these desires... Why destroy someone's life? It seems so egoistic.

I think I can agree the most with the udea of making them repress their sexual urges. Something like a sexual preference is ridiculously difficult (arguably impossible) to rewrite, but in the big indoctrination we call life, sex drives don't quite share the same untouchable status. You could probably convince a paedophile that his rape fantasies should never become reality with far greater ease than you could convice him that children aren't attractive.

But where do you draw the line?
At people who actually raped a kid? At people who watch that sort of porn? At people who have at some point in their live admitted they are interested in kids in that way?

People who are guilty of rape, across any age and any gender, are despicable and should receive the full punitive action of society and the law.

People who are guilty of possession of child pornography, or who admit to an attraction to children, but who have never acted upon their desires, should be monitored, and provided psychological aid.

The issue with child porn isn't so much with the people that watch it but rather how it got out there, at least in my opinion. In a perfect world there would be no child porn out there, so people wouldn't be allowed to watch it, but at least watching it is better than actually physically acting upon their urges. To have those thoughts in your head is abnormal but I don't see any issue in them having those thoughts. They can't help it. They should be helped though. Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, drugs to decrease sex drive, etc.

16 or 17 is a different story entirely...it might be "wrong" in the lawful sense but it doesn't represent anywhere near the same magnitude of sexual corruption as being attracted to children who haven't achieved puberty yet.

I think for some men, there might even be a certain mysticism about the pubescent female -- look no further than Nabokov's Lolita for evidence of that.

Pedophilia and ephebophilia are sexual preferences, just as homosexuality and heterosexuality are sexual preferences. Pedophiles do not "develop" an attraction to minors just as homosexuals do not "develop" an attraction to the same sex; it's an inborn trait that cannot be changed. In that sense, there is nothing morally wrong with being sexually attracted to minors because it's not something that you actively choose.

What IS morally reprehensible is when you choose to engage in inappropriate actions with someone who is too young to consent/understand the full consequences of their actions.

I think it's just a sucky truth that pedophiles can't help the way they feel but are hatred with vitrol by most of society anyway.

Hopefully though, we're all aware of the fact that teenagers don't know **** about their sexuality, and that's the primary reason we shouldn't be bonking them. :laughing:

I'll stick to bonking middle aged women.

16 or 17 is a completely different story, yeah. If they have the qualities of an older woman that you find attractive, then you're attracted to them, which is fine if you don't act on it. this isn't usually an issue, because most just opt to go for older women as it's socially acceptable.

There is of course being attracted to the idea of someone being underage though. I know there's a paraphilia where people are attracted specifically to people that are right around the age of consent, can't remember the name though.

ephebophilia

This might be a little off-topic and maybe slightly TMI, but oh well.

In the last few months or so I've lost almost any urge to look at pornography. It happened as I was watching one (as men are wont to do at times) and I saw a penetrative act that didn't even look remotely pleasing for the girl...and well, it was completely deflating.

It actually forced me to realize that sex should be more about love between two people than gratification of individual sexual urges.

So no, pornography doesn't even begin to satisfy me anymore...and I can imagine other men have had similar experiences.

I respect the **** out of that, Sam.

I agree completely.
That's another problem. When is a child a child. When is it mentally damaging for a child to have sex? Is it still criminal if the child agrees? Things like that.
It's good there's a minimum age, I think. But how wrong is paedophilia if you compare it to homosexuality. Or, how wrong is homosexuality when you compare it to paedophilia?

My opinion is very simple; As long as no one is harmed, it's allright.
But that's a very, very vague line.

There's a very good reason I prefer watching a single girl to people actually having sex. Even if they're both girls. It doesn't really feel natural to me to look at something like that. I am somewhat grossed out by it. I'm not sure why this doesn't happen to me when there's just one girl on the screen. I even prefer video's made by the girls themselves because in that case you're actually looking at something the girl meant you to see.

How weird is this? Not sure.

Yeah man, I know what you mean. I used to hear these conversations my "friends" were having about taking the brown express, and the guys calling it the best thing ever disgusted me. The majority of chicks I've talked to that have had it in the rear didn't like it at all. I just don't get the appeal behind it (oh wow, that is not meant to be a pun).

I think sixteen is an acceptable place to draw the line, because I don't believe a person is mentally developed enough to process the consequences of their actions.

My grad class was about 150 students. I can't count on all my fingers and toes the number of girls I know by name who dropped out of school due to pregnancy. The number of girls from my grad class who have had multiple children in the four years since then absolutely astounds me.

I don't believe that teenagers can adequately weigh the pros of fun against the cons of poor choices.

Yes, 16.
And what if the other person is 38 or something?
Still a bit weird, innit?

There's this girl I know, she's 20 now, I'm 27. We're attracted to eachother, she's epic but she's got a boyfriend, no biggie. Nothing is going to happen.
I got to know her years ago when she was... 13? 14? Not sure.
And we had this conversation a couple of weeks back. She was sexually active quite early. Mentally too, by the way.
Lost her virginity at 14, nothing bad happened, she was just a bit early and still feels fine about it. Eitherway, when I got to know here there definitely was a certain 'spark' between us. This has remained up till now. A couple of weeks back we had this conversation about what would have happened if at some point at her 14th she would have been single... And we weren't quite so sure. This could have meant that I would have had sex with a 14 year old girl, while I was 21. If you know the situation, if you know the girl, it isn't even that bad. But if you look at the ages, it sounds like an awful idea.
It didn't happen. And if it happens now, it's fine. But this some how proves that the age (difference) alone is a difficult thing, too. Because I can genuinely say that it wouldn't have done her any harm, had anything happened back then.

Come to think of it, she had a 27 year old boyfriend when she was 15 anyway. In her case, this somehow works. She's got a great boyfriend now, he's 26 if I'm not mistaken. So that's not all that weird. Brilliant guy.

Its strange, because tv and movies depict lots of young people frolicking around being provocative having sex all the time (american pie for example). Just the other day a night variety show (sabado jigante) had some young girls, probably 7 or 8, dressed like grown women, shaking their thang. In the past (roman, babylonian), it was actually normal for a grown man to have a young friend.
We live in times of constant contradiction, where we hate the pedophile but bait them with tv, movies and music videos depicting barely legal girls, or boys, but mostly girls, wearing practically nothing saying, "I'm not that innocent" and "student body has a bad reputation, what they need is an adult education."
Sounds like society needs to make a decision to whats considered acceptable and just stick with it.

Speaking of that, read up on pederasty in ancient Greece. It's so weird how that was socially accepted, but a homosexual relationship between two grown men was not.

Is anyone familiar with Pederasty?
The psychological make-up of what pedophilia Is and Isn't, can be quite daunting in both mental and moral aspects. This has never been more black & white than it is today, though what is defined as pedophilia can differ from person to person.