What is happening with MB?
 

Whether you are aware or not, there has been another couple of mod resignations over the past week or so namely Urban and Loathsome Pete which has continued the trend over the last 12 months or so with big names and genuine contributing regulars such as Right Track, PMO, Bulldog, Big 3, myself and Seltzer all stepping down.

I am really wondering whether MB is beginning to run it's course. The journal section is probably the most quite I have known it to be since I have been here and the lack of really juicy threads that encourage in depth discussion have certainly made me post in a lot fewer threads over the past year.

I know that there was real hope that this forum could actually become something very special and rise above it's mere forum status due to many members with fantastic knowledge and writing skills but that has failed to materialise for whatever reason.

Are social networking sites hampering the need to write and be heard unless it's only a sentence for the attention deficit or is it the lack of good music around or is it the lack of a certain age demographic which means we feel surplus to requirements?

Everyone gets bored at some point with visiting the same site over and over again that is a given but for this many mods to hang up their blue cloaks over the past year? It's not mere coincidence.

They are just stepping down from their mod positions to make room for me.

I've watched forums die before. I don't think this one is even that close. There's still a solid group of regulars around here.

To be fair though I haven't used the journals or blogs or anything like that. And I don't post or read many reviews. So I can't really comment on the state of that.

What you mean that every forum you have joined has died not long after?

Every forum I have ever joined has been "in decline" according to the members who have been a part of it longest. Even in leaving those forums and returning years later, an entirely new group of people is "missing the days when" and lamenting the passing of the forum's "prime".

All of these types of complaints lead me to think that the forum itself is never the problem, more that those who are using it are changing as people, moving in and out of the forum and of phases in their lives.

They call me Reaper. Grim Reaper.

But seriously, no that's not what I am saying at all. I only have ever posted on one other forum. And the first 5 years there was active and lots of good discussion. Then the next 4 years was a gradual decline of regulars leaving and no new member sticking around. Then I left and started posting here and that forum is basically a ghost town with a group of like 10 people talking about random stuff.

I can't speak on the forum pre-October. But it seems like there is still a lot of regulars on this site, and just in the past few months there's been new people signing up and sticking around.

That usually is the case and I can see where you are coming from but for this many mods to say goodbye leads me to conclude that it is not what it used to be. MB is one of the very best non profit music forums out there (and I have checked site hits, popularity, site worth monetary) so for many of it's contributing members to leave must mean something and I have seen very few people to replace them personally.

^This.
It's true. I've seen it happen over and over again.
Every forum that's been on the internet for longer than 5 years or so, has at least one topic stating that the forum is dying.

Usually it is indeed the oldest forumpeople that are bothered by it most.
Forums do change, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. But when you've been on a forum for such a long time that it almost feels like your 'baby' or like your 'home', change can feel really bad and awkward.

I've been on a forum where four or five of the oldest members didn't want any thing to change or happen. Well that forum is pretty ****ed now.

Eitherway, I wouldn't be too worried either. I think this forum is safe ;).

Edit: Read your newest post, jackhammer. Haven't you noticed that for some reason negative things always happen short after another? It's just one of those periods I guess.

Maybe it's just changes in their personal lives? As people get older I'm guessing the forum falls more and more down the ladder of importance in their lives. At some point it just becomes not worth it to mod anymore. Do mods even have to do that much? Clean up some spam, ban people for sexually inappropriate posts?

I agree with Pedestrian though. Forums are always getting worse if you ask long time members. Cause things change and old members start to post less and eventually leave.

Well, I can't comment on why they stepped down from their responsibilities, but they have definitely not abandoned the website. Perhaps they aren't as active as they once were, but surely you'd admit that it isn't as if the quality posters start and stop with those who have been modded.

What you have said is spot on and I do hope that is the case but I have this feeling that MB will never be what it was and will never be.

I have always thought that this is a truly exceptional music forum. Not overly clicky and full of great posts with erudite responses and knowledgeable people and a reason for many to come back again and again and I can say that virtually all the mods that have resigned have not had major lifestyle changes in order for them to quit.

I genuinely hope that in a years time this site is full of hustle and bustle but I have my doubts and I am only expressing how I feel and know many feel the same way.

Of course it won't be what it was, because the population is ever changing, but what says that different can't be just as good? There will not be another Right Track or Big3, nor would you want one if you got one, because the reason users like these are meaningful to you is because they are one of a kind. The ticket is to acknowledge this, and then be open to all the different kinds of irreplaceable users that are certain to come through here.

I found it difficult for a long time not to take it personally that every forum I ever joined was "dying". It's hard not to be disappointed by the fact that the community you're trying to be a part of is too busy missing other people to recognize the value in new contributors, but I have come to realize that this is a constant, and not a result of my joining at a bad time, or worse: causing the problem.

Hope not... I've only been here like three months.

And I've only been for a few days, more eager than ever to spew out reviews and essays and whatnots. Don't tell me the party's already over!

A lot of threads I've seen these days are self-congratulatory, riding completely on shock value that merit absolutely no real discussion. Now albeit, I'm a fairly new member myself, but I couldn't help but notice. It's not an issue with the people; they clearly feel like talking, but what they're discussing doesn't really offer many retorts. The conversations that we have over overratedness or how silly 'real life' people's opinions on music are can only go on for so long before dying. Not like I feel I can 'save' the website myself, but putting a bit more effort into perpetuating discussion rather than giving temporary laughter is a lot more vital to a forum.

Have no idea what to say about the journals, as I don't think I've set foot in there before. I've brought the obvious horse to water but I don't really know how to make it drink.

I think the site has improved in many ways since I got here so I don't think that the site may be changing in a negative way overall. Sometimes I look at really old threads and I think "man, that crap would not have happened now". Still, a lot of the people that I like on the site and like to read the posts of have or are disappearing. I'm not sure why this is. Maybe when some people leave, the people who like to read their posts feel more incined to leave and it's just a bit of a snowball effect affecting some members we're currently seeing.

We are getting new members here to "replace" the old. New good members. Just recently, I've noticed the positive presence of Dotoar, MrD00d and Lisnaholic which have all joined up within the last month I believe. I hope they will all become regular contributors on the site.

So, I think it's mostly a problem of friends leaving rather than the whole site going down the drain. That's not to say there are not problems with the site. I think it rewards short litter posts in quick and easy threads like the spam threads way too much while the worthwhile reads don't get noticed often enough, but this is a problem that should be addressed by changing the site design or perhaps community events that rewards good writers etc. rather than bitching at people for not getting involved. These problems have been here all along and are not new, though.

5 Annoyances As To Why I Don't Post Here As Much As I Used To


1. Too many Youtube videos, not enough discussion.
How about you say what you like about a band in a few sentences & offer a few opinions on them instead of posting about an hours worth of videos from said band that nobody will watch.

2. People who excessively posts comedy gifs, stupid pictures & internet memes
By all means do it in the games/jokes forum, and I guess the lounge to a lesser extent. But if you keep doing it in the music forum that automatically makes you a prick in my book.

3. Same Old Same Old
I can't remember the last time someone listened to something out of their comfort zone & actually wrote something interesting about it

4. Shoutbox People
I've lost count of the number of times the shoutbox regulars get hostile towards somebody because someone new in there dares to have a conversation that may not involve them. It's pretty sickening some of the childish tantrums I've seen thrown in there. I think if the whole thing was scrapped it would actually improve the forum.

5. Lack of interest by Admin
We've had a succession of owners who don't give a shit and the forum looks dated because of it compared to others. Any attempt to modernise or improve by members wanting to make a difference isn't even acknowledged let alone thanked for.
It may have a few more sub forums and the occasional tweak, but other than that this site has less features than it did when I joined in 2004.


And those 5 reasons are pretty much why I no longer have any interest in modding here anymore.

The talk instruments forum has always been dead. Theres no change there.

I think You me and Mr Dave account for 95 percent of it. Thats the main reason I log in every day haha.

You and I think as one, we're like two horses together in a harness.

I'm very much a newbie, but I've been more or less pleased. To be completely honest though, I was expecting somewhat more intelligent, in-depth conversations than the ones I've been having. I don't know if that's my fault though, or the fault of other users. I have to give props to Clutnuckle though, I swear practically every interesting conversation I've had included him.

And the posting of youtube videos is pretty annoying. Especially in the "albums you're digging" thread. Is it really that difficult to post like, two to three sentences about an album you supposedly like so much?

I have to admit though, this site has really expanded my musical horizons. I mean, in the couple of months (I think) I've been here I've been listening to a lot more Krautrock, Jazz, and other genres that I've never really been able to get into. As a tool for discovering new music, I've never met a website as effective as music banter.

I've not noticed any great decline from last year, although I would agree the journals section is too quiet.

This is a relative newbie postulating, but I feel like this "decline" you speak of may simply be caused by members you're familiar with growing tired of reading the same debates and regurgitating the same opinions month after month. I mean, there's only so much you can say about the "classics" (and I don't mean classic rock, I mean any highly-regarded, often-discussed artist that fills any particular niche) before you've seen and said it all. At that point, you just stop discussing the classics.

I mean, yes, you can still use MB to pick up recommendations and discover music, but that is far less interactive than the aforementioned discussion.

Honestly I can't say I find anything particularly irregular with the way MB has been recently. And I can honestly find no complaints on my end. MB, has and will always be, to me, a infinite source of music that I can turn to whenever I need, and hopefully I can be able to contribute towards that as well.

I think the problem is when people start looking at the find print of the forum, and delving into too many formal technicalities that annoyance arise. Ok, so there are those that post in the shoutbox, ok, so there are those that love to talk about instruments, and sure there are those who distribute one liners like candy on halloween. But, in my opinion, it is all of these that collectively make the forum what it is. Sure there are those that don't contribute to the forum as much as others, myself included, but to make a thread about the forum's decline, when it is clearly extremely active seems a bit of a hyperbole to me.

Of course, the mods that are currently here aren't going to be here forever, it's a given, but there are so much more terrific members with a wealth of musical knowledge that would love to step their game up and be a part of the team to make MB a better place.

I for one won't give up on the respectability of this site so easily, it still flourishes in my book.

Thats the best answer yet. I feel that way when talking about well known albums with my friends. We know exactly where each other stands so theres really no progress that can be made by talking about it. I think thats a good thing though, because then you realize its time to branch out and listen to something different.

I don't really see what the fuss is about, but maybe I just find my own way to be entertained on here. I've taken the point in about youtube videos though, it's good to know that they are useless without a few words of explanation.

Seeing Urban's username in black is really, really weird.

I think there is just as much, if not more, activity on here currently than at any point in the last two years. That being said, that activity is not nearly as interesting or productive as it once was. Less and less people are actually discussing music it seems.

Can I just say I disagree about the shoutbox causing problems? Dayvan was never ostracised, and there are plenty of times I've seen people welcomed with open arms. The only person that really caught any flak in there recently was dirty.

Edit: As for activity, I think this is a prime reason we need a frontpage. It'd certainly help make the subforums more active, as opposed to just the lounge.

I strongly agree with this point, of course!

This is a real problem for me as well and I hate this situation .. I haven't given up entirely yet, but the lack of backing by admins is a real pain. If MB had been for sale and affordable for me, I'd consider buying it just so that the community would get more control of the site.

I believe the main issue with the journals is that people just feel that no one reads them at all. I do, and to be honest I really don't read them as much as I should.

Regarding "Shoutbox People", which are obviously some sort of hideous cliquey animals, I really think that the issue is that it's much easier to post in the shoutbox, and all sorts of trolls and new members who only seek to disturb the forum have their go at doing it there.
What I find quite amusing is the amount of people that worship these kinds of members as if they were comical geniuses. I find it disrespectful and in all honesty, immensely stupid.

Another issue which I'd like to discuss is the creation of idiotic, pointless threads in The Lounge in order to bring some life into the forum in some way. It might seem like a good idea, but try to do that in the general music forum instead, I'm sure they'd get posted in and the content wouldn't be absolutely preposterous.
Just so I don't get attacked I mean threads like the "One Word Post Thread" and "Last Poster Wins".

I agree that these kind of threads are idiotic. I can't see the attraction of posting on-topic in a one-word thread at all and I view such threads mostly as distractions. I wouldn't personally mind if they were all gone.

Really I think this forum has very few problems. It could perhaps do with being a little more active in places, but the mods are good the trolls are nonexistant (Depending on your view of certain members). If I had a choice between how things are now and how they could be if we made the place more active but lost the mod team, I'd take the slowness every time.

Also, I agree with UB about those members people think are comedic geniuses despite their schtick being to be generally annoying, but theres not much we can do about that unless we convince the mods the forum would be a better place without such people. Its nothing a policy can be enforced on.

Yes but they are not in the music forums which is the most important. Personally if the lounge is cluttered with that stuff it just means less bad threads in the real parts.

Thats actually not true. Another board I used to frequent had a board called "It Just Bugs Me" - The premise was it was a forum to soak up all the bitching about things that pervaded other boards.

It actually just ENCOURAGED bitching, in all forms. They've nuked it now, but I think the place is so hung up on having that ability to bitch about things that its sown its own demise. If that board had never existed I doubt that problem would be there.

I'd be against deleting subforums that we already have, or creating new ones, but I do think there should be an encouragement of some description to create threads with content in as opposed to timewasters. We do have a LOT of threads around the whole of musicbanter that serve as 'megathreads' for people to waste time in by repeating themselves. All of the forum games threads for example.

on the other hand, we do have the Saturday sixpack, the mini review this song thread, and lots of other longrunners that encourage genuine posts.

Perhaps we should simply start pruning forums games a bit? Allow it to exist, but close inactive threads and nuke ones with particularly little actual content?

Your probably correct. I just feel with the group of people that post here (not to name anyone in specific) that off topic and meaningless posts will continue to happen. There are a lot of everyday active posters that im pretty sure contribute way more in the lounge than anywhere else. I dont see anything wrong with that as this is Music Banter but still should be a place for someone to vent or talk about whatever they please.

The focus should definitely be shifted back to more music oriented posting though.

How about we stop making threads about "why MB isn't as good as it used to be" and start talking about music?

I have been doing. Who says men can't multitask!

Anyway, this is the only one, and so far the consensus seems to be it isn't worse than it used to be, but it could be better. Better is always a good thing, yes?

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Listening to: Stevie Wonder - [Original Musiquarium I, Volume II #07] Isn't She Lovely [foobar2000 v1.0.3]

Maybe I should have worded that better. Yes, of course MB could be better.

I seem to remember about two threads prior to this one questioning the future of MB and talking about how much its gone downhill. Yes, valid points are always brought out, however I get the feeling that some people just like to bitch, and its getting old.

Maybe not so much that they like to bitch, but more that they're seemingly failing to realize that not everyone has the same perspective about it as they do.
Saying a forum is going downhill and will never be the same because your friends stopped using it or what have you, is like saying life (for everyone) is going downhill because all your friends died.

Kind of an over-the-top comparison, but it's the same concept.
That said, I think the forum will do just fine as long as great members keep showing up and great members keep getting modded.

I like bitching. Sometimes forums need a boot up the arse and this might actually help.

I think the diversity of posting and the sheer number of members who have responded to this thread with decent answers goes to show that this forum is far from dying. When I joined, there were maybe 10,15 people who could have been considered regulars. I think maybe 3 or 4 of them still post on the forum, and I don't think any of the mod team have remained. Forums change, they evolve, but I think the general Essence of MB has definitely improved over time. For every troll/spammer, there is at least one thoughtful poster, and many more who, if given pointers (like about the youtube thing - I agree, but what is obvious to some may not be obvious to others: simply pointing it out can do a world of good), would post just as well as any of the "best".

MB has always been a fantastic place to go to find music, or just thought-provoking debate, and I can't see that changing any time soon, with the userbase that it currently has.