mr dave

what?

she's not a hermaphrodite for one. gender bending perhaps, but packing both units. not sure where you're getting the sex drive thing from either. i was referring to the misuse of the term asexual that some people use to describe not having a sex drive, it's wrong. asexual means being a species capable of individual reproduction by being born with all necessary reproductive organs. nothing about libido. though i'm sure Tore could elaborate if necessary.




as for the shaving thing it cuts both ways but not nearly as bad on the man's face as the woman's legs. as a male you don't get any direct derision but you are treated differently when you have a badass hobo beard as compared to being clean shaven. women just seem far more direct and insidious with their genetic self-loathing than guys.

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VEGANGELICA

A badass hobo beard! Yeah, you don't see those too often, other than with ZZ Top. And in certain countries where male beards are encouraged or required by law for religious reasons (s c a r y ! ! ). I think people here occasionally playfully make fun of men's beards and especially mustaches. They don't make vocal "eww" sounds and derisive laughter about men's beards...very often, at least.

Here's an article about Mo'Nique, who keeps her body hair (pictures of her were shown earlier in the thread). I'm glad she and a few other famous women, such as the Dresden Dolls' Amanda Palmer, raise the topic of shaving and inspire a discussion. I'm glad they are so brave, because they make life easier for other women by helping to reduce social constraints on them:

That's part of what I don't like about shaving: it is as if women are intentionally making themselves obsequious, too afraid to stand up to people's negative opinions.

It reminds me of how in the 50s, women in the U.S. intentionally tried to "play dumb" so that their less educated male significant others didn't feel threatened (I have a book from the 1950s in which women are interviewed about this issue). I always felt sad for those women, because they weren't able to be who they really were in their relationships. And back then, with more limited work opportunities, women were forced to rely on finding a mate for financial security, so they made personal sacrifices in order to conform to the socially accepted view of "woman."

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mr dave

maybe not beards but i've most definitely heard less than nice comments about mullets heheh.

i also totally agree with all your other points.

though i must say body image stigma has definitely started to affect both genders in recent times though still not as harshly for men as women. but when you see men's 'health' magazines in the grocery store and most of the guys in the photos look like Adidasss' avatar it makes my skinny frame feel quite out of place (being built like a female runway model isn't quite that awesome when you're the one with the penis).


as for the comparison to the unnaturalness of glasses vs. the unnaturalness of shaving they're worlds apart. glasses serve a tangible purpose to allow for a productive life. i don't see how shaving one's legs or armpits quite serves the same purpose and function as the ability to provide clear sight.


here's a 'fresh' conspiracy theory for the afternoon as well. ever notice how there are no actual deodorants (to cover up the smell of the sweat) specifically marketed to women? only antiperspirants (to block pores to actually stop the sweat from happening). the conspiracy being a MUCH higher rate of breast cancer to those without deodorants.

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boo boo

Maybe, but all you need is a gun, that doesn't really require serious physical strength.

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Dom

I'll give you that, but I'd imagine relatively few of these crimes were committed using a gun. You were talking of crimes like sexual offences amongst others, now can you really imagine an average woman overpowering an average man to rape him?

What I was really saying in my first post was that it seems to me that girls feel more emotional pain, or at least, the girls I know tend to go into more and worse bad moods than the guys I know, and it's partly that that puts me off wanting to change my gender.

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boo boo

From what I hear Lebannon is one of the more liberal middle eastern countries, though I take it that's not saying much.

Attracting other mates is a pretty legitimate use. Taste in women is pretty varied from guy to guy but one thing that is pretty universal is smooth legs.

And yeah, guys shave parts of their body to look more attractive too, granted the stigma isn't as great if they don't do it, but if all vegan is fighting for is for women to have a choice I have no problem with that, but they do have a choice, if she made the choice not to do it why can't any other woman? At least in western society. There is always some little subculture out there where you will be accepted and it seems like she found hers. At this point in time the worst you'll get is dirty looks and that's a good step forward from when women were prosecuted in witch trials.

My problem is she is making this a false dilemma, either you do what she does and you're being the progressive, or you choose to shave your legs because god forbid you have no problems with it and actually like to do it because you don't like having hairy legs, you're still part of the problem.

That is just bullsh*t.

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mr dave

that's only a modern thing though.

glasses helped people live better lives from the time they were invented. if you were born myopic in the middle ages you were screwed. if you had hairy legs no one gave a crap.

real medieval women did not look like the ones in medieval skinemax movies.


also this gem -

But I'd be called a queer if I shaved my body hair and I dont want to go through the trouble of maintaining it anyway so I cope with it


how would anyone know you shave your body hair unless you flaunt it? and why would anyone flaunt it unless they wanted the attention? it's not 'queer' unless you're doing it for fashion and ease of man on man action. i keep my body hair trimmed because it means i sweat way less when i drum.

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