VEGANGELICA

I didn't realize how strongly negative British people's feelings about accents there are! I think you are lucky to have so many different ones.

It always seems strange and pretty wonderful to me that you have so many accents on such a tiny island. I would have expected them to have blended together more over the years. Don't you people move? Or do almost all people end up staying in their home town (like me!)?

Over here I'd have to travel at least a day by car to hear any accent differences (8 hours to Chicago). The differences would be pretty subtle, too. There is a country Iowan way of talking, though, which I find interesting. The grammar is a bit non-standard.

Here is a word I dislike: I don't like the word "guys." Everyone here says it now. School teachers say to the kids, "Okay, guys, let's go (blah blah)." The part that annoys me is that "guy" used to just be used to refer to a "man," and now it has taken over meaning "woman," too. Luckily, most kids these days just think of "guys" as meaning "people," so the sexism inherent in the word has died. I never say it, though. I say, "Okay, people, let's go."

Oh, and I hate "Mrs." and "Miss." Why should women but not men be addressed differently based on marital status? It's like women are inherently being put up for sexual perusal! I dislike "Mr.", too.

EDIT: I do find it kind of cute, though, when young grocery store urchins (baggers) call me Ma'am. It makes me want to giggle. Hearing such ancient politeness come out of the mouths of 17-year-olds is a little sweet.

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Scarlett O'Hara

Are you a feminist? Just out of interest.

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jibber

I think a great new MB game would be to find a topic that Vegangelica CAN'T turn into an issue of sexism

I say guys all the time to refer to a group of men and women, and even if I'm in a group of all women I'm more likely to say "guys" than "girls." I also call my female friends "dude." It could be a regional thing though, a lot of my friends from England or other parts of Europe find it pretty strange whereas where I'm from it's very common.

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What you've done becomes the judge of what you're going to do -- especially in other people's minds. When you're traveling, you are what you are right there and then. People don't have your past to hold against you. No yesterdays on the road.
William Least Heat Moon, Blue Highways

Your toughest competitor lives in your head. Some days his name is fear, or pain, or gravity. Stomp his ass.

HOOKED ON THE WHITE POWDER

Seltzer

I'd attribute England's diversity of accents mainly to their adjacency to Scotland and Wales, and to their colourful history of being repeatedly invaded by Celts, Romans, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Danes, Nords and Normans/French over millennia... e.g. Yorkshire was an important part of Danelaw around the 9th century and the Danes' influence on the modern Yorkshire dialect is still present.

There are plenty of other factors as well such as longstanding division by government/administrative boundaries, lack of national unity, the gulf between urban and rural types, modern immigration, and as you said, the Brits' antagonism towards and stereotypes about non-local accents.

It's a pretty interesting topic though, and I'd like to read more about it.

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VEGANGELICA

Is...is it obvious?

Oooo, I'd like that game!

Horrors! "Girls?" I have never referred to a woman as a girl in my life (except once or twice to amuse some people online).

Seltzer, thanks for the info! I am envious of being in a place that has a lot of recorded human history. We've got so little here.

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jibber

This I agree with, it really irritates me hearing adult women referring to themselves as "girls." I used the term "girls" more because it seems to be the most direct equivalent to "guys." But if I was with a group of all female friends I'd still say "guys" to refer to everyone instead of "women" or any other word.

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What you've done becomes the judge of what you're going to do -- especially in other people's minds. When you're traveling, you are what you are right there and then. People don't have your past to hold against you. No yesterdays on the road.
William Least Heat Moon, Blue Highways

Your toughest competitor lives in your head. Some days his name is fear, or pain, or gravity. Stomp his ass.

HOOKED ON THE WHITE POWDER

Tea Supremacist

Comments like this always remind me of Eddie Izzard - Just the first minute or so...


Back on topic though, I hate the word 'girls' It's ok if I'm talking about my little neice or something, but not a fully grown woman. I also hate the terms 'boyfrind' and 'girlfriend'. To me, it's ok if you're 13. I'm 27 and 'boyfriend' seems a little... juvenile? Especially in a long term situation.

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VEGANGELICA

Ha ha! That Eddie Izzard clip was funny, especially the part about Disney castles. It's true, too...over here keeping any structure that is over 30 years old or so is a struggle. Someone always wants to tear it down and build something Newer and Bigger and Better. Such as giant outdoor aquatic centers. Or malls. Or bigger parking lots. And new housing developments filled with McMansions are given names that sound British to try to make them seem historic and quaint.

About "girls"--I've noticed some older women (60+) often refer to themselves that way, and older men often refer to them as "girls," too. I think they like imagining they are young again, or maybe they just got used to that back in the sexist 1950s.

I usually see "girl" as a derogatory term. Much like "boy" when it is used in a racist way: "Shine my shoes, boy." The problem with "girl" is that people usually don't call grown men "boys" and so calling women "girls" is a way to reduce their importance relative to men's.

But I recognize SOME people must have just grown up saying "girl" without meaning anything bad by it, so I cut them some slack. It's kind of cute, maybe, depending on how the person uses it. Or maybe just depending on the person. I'm thinking of one person in particular I know who seems to use "girl" almost all the time to refer to a woman. It's kind of endearing, like he thinks women are cuddly little puppies.

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boo boo

"Girl" is a derogatory term? Oh veggie that's extreme even for you. I don't consider it to be at all, I use it often, though less when regarding seniors in which case I say "lady". Woman does have a much more dignified vibe to it though, it's like man, but with 2 extra letters.

Also I use "gal" a LOT, it's standard southern etiquette and is pretty much just the female equivalent of "guy".

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TheCunningStunt

You can't go wrong with 'bint'.

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