The Profession-al Argument

scottsy · 04-17-2010, 10:36 AM

Oh I am sure it's not everyone's cup of tea, but i just think if you have the ability and the willingness to do it, why not give yourself the added advantage in the job market and avoid having to work in crappy grocery stores all your life....

It's a competetive market out there and you gotta give yourself some sort of edge, and for many, I guess further education is the answer...

If you have some other talent that gives you a place in the world and you're happy with where you're at in the working world, go nuts then I say... it's all about finding that sweet spot in life where you have a happiness in the workplace... much harder to find and maintain than it is to say, though, you know...

Minor Monster · 04-17-2010, 12:40 PM

Im 26 and I only have an AA degree which means next to ****. I went to a 4 year college for a semester and a half and dropped out, now I owe an insane amount of money from loans. I would suggest to anyone that is in school, to stay, why the hell not? I want to go back but I probably wont. Ill chase this dream that I have barely contributed to in months, a dream that has a 99% failure probability, probably 99.9% when you factor in my procrastination skills... Im probably going nowhere. If I had a degree I wouldnt be working in the hell that I do with no chance of promotion of any kind.

Im also getting kicked out of the place I live and dont know what im gonna do

ok done bitching

Urban Hat€monger ? · 04-17-2010, 01:14 PM

I think it's a shame that so many people seem to think that it's either collage/university or a life spent in pointless shitty jobs.

There are plenty of other ways to further your education and if you think that all there is to it then it's you that's missing out.

That's the route I took. never been in debt , always been earning money and basically was getting paid to learn. I earn just as much money now as most people I know who went to collage/university the only difference is I didn't have a massive debt to pay off for the privilege.
Was it that I was lucky?
No I just put the effort it.

**Janszoon** · 04-17-2010, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

I was on tenterhooks about posting this before because it might sound like I'm trying to brag (which I'm not) but it sounds like you have a VERY wrong idea of what and where technical majors are in demand. Across a company? Yeah, you'll have to relocate, but if you're just looking for a job you won't need to look very far.

I'm not talking about within a company, I'm talking about switching companies. My wife and father-in-law are both electrical engineers so maybe that's a totally different scenario than a mechanical engineer, I don't know. What I do know is that for them, and assorted other electrical engineers my wife is acquainted with, switching companies most likely will mean you have to move.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

Here's a few of the engineering jobs I'm actually qualified for right now. If you notice the industries which they represent you'll see they range from communications, electronics, waste management, transportation, civil contractors, government work, etc etc etc. Not only that they're (mostly) within a few hundred miles' radius making it easy to relocate to find a job. (One is within walking distance of my apartment!) Most of these aren't small companies either, the ones which actively recruit through sites like this are generally the bigger firms.

Personally this summer I'll be working for an engineering firm that's five miles from my house. And within that area there's at least four or five more well-paying jobs within my field at my disposal. The only thing that sucks is the manufacturing industry's gone down the shitter in the past few years, making it difficult to find places looking for new hires.

I'd love to see what this would look like if I was a liberal arts major. A much shorter list, I expect.

I doubt it would be a shorter list at all, in fact I'd say it would probably be substantially longer. You've actually kind of proven my initial point here by providing list of "nearby" jobs that by-and-large would mean you would have to relocate. A person with a liberal arts degree, being much less of a niche employee, would most likely be able to find work without having to move at all.

I'm happy for you that you have what sounds like a great summer internship, but I'd definitely be very curious to hear how you feel about this topic after a decade or so actually working in the industry.

lucifer_sam · 04-17-2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I'm not talking about within a company, I'm talking about switching companies. My wife and father-in-law are both electrical engineers so maybe that's a totally different scenario than a mechanical engineer, I don't know. What I do know is that for them, and assorted other electrical engineers my wife is acquainted with, switching companies most likely will mean you have to move.

I doubt it would be a shorter list at all, in fact I'd say it would probably be substantially longer. You've actually kind of proven my initial point here by providing list of "nearby" jobs that by-and-large would mean you would have to relocate. A person with a liberal arts degree, being much less of a niche employee, would most likely be able to find work without having to move at all.

I'm happy for you that you have what sounds like a great summer internship, but I'd definitely be very curious to hear how you feel about this topic after a decade or so actually working in the industry,

So let me get this straight: you're still under the impression that liberal arts majors have more opportunities available to them? Feel free to argue this however you like, can't say I'll ever see where you're coming from. At this point it doesn't really matter what I use to support my argument, it's obvious you have a certain p.o.v. entrenched in your personal convictions.

Although I'd like to ask, what makes you think a liberal arts major is any more qualified than anyone else as far as a non-technical profession goes? Remember, "writing skills" aren't major-specific, everybody's expected to have those.

**Janszoon** · 04-17-2010, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

So let me get this straight: you're still under the impression that liberal arts majors have more opportunities available to them? Feel free to argue this however you like, can't say I'll ever see where you're coming from. At this point it doesn't really matter what I use to support my argument, it's obvious you have a certain p.o.v. entrenched in your personal convictions.

Well, you've actually shifted the goal posts here a bit. We started off talking about English majors but then you switched to talking about liberal arts majors in general. Which would you like to talk about?

And before you jump any conclusions about what my personal convictions are, keep in mind that I too have very much of a niche degree and career path.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

Although I'd like to ask, what makes you think a liberal arts major is any more qualified than anyone else as far as a non-technical profession goes? Remember, "writing skills" aren't major-specific, everybody's expected to have those.

Who exactly do you want to compare them to? People without a degree? People with a mechanical engineering degree?

Your comment about writing skills is actually pretty funny. Employers may expect people to have them but you'd be surprised by how few people actually do. And just like you no doubt have engineering skills far beyond the typical English major, the typical English major has writing skills far beyond yours.

lucifer_sam · 04-17-2010, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

Well, you've actually shifted the goal posts here a bit. We started off talking about English majors but then you switched to talking about liberal arts majors in general. Which would you like to talk about?

And before you jump any conclusions about what my personal convictions are, keep in mind that I too have very much of a niche degree and career path. I'm as far from having a generalized type of degree as you are.

Who exactly do you want to compare them to? People without a degree? People with a mechanical engineering degree?

Your comment about writing skills is actually pretty funny. Employers may expect people to have them but you'd be surprised by how few people actually do. And just like you no doubt have engineering skills far beyond the typical English major, the typical English major has writing skills far beyond yours.

I did shift focus a bit, my bad. I was using the English major as an example but I was applying it toward all degrees within the liberal arts spectrum.

And actually, it's funny that you mention it, but right now my career field is as expansive as mechanical engineering field itself is. Grad school is really where you orient your focus towards a specific field, but mechanical engineers are in demand in virtually every major industry.

I find your own perspective somewhat humorous on the matter. What common job would require the expansive knowledge of an English major over someone who's simply competent at writing professionally? There's a ceiling for knowledge in all careers where further pursuit simply becomes academic, I think you reach that level much quicker in an English major than an engineering one.

You're definitely right though. Communication skills ARE prized in industry, (and not just communications industries!) but I don't believe an English degree is necessary to see those promotions when writing requirements are mostly satisfied by being an able technical writer.

lucifer_sam · 04-17-2010, 02:36 PM

I like this discussion but it's so far off-topic that it's almost absurd.

New thread okay?

**Janszoon** · 04-17-2010, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

I like this discussion but it's so far off-topic that it's almost absurd.

New thread okay?

Sure thing.

Astronomer · 04-17-2010, 04:21 PM

I think a lot of you are underrating what an education can do for you. It's a known fact that those who complete tertiary education will earn more money in their lifetime than those who do not, and will be more employable. But note that I said 'tertiary education' and not necessarily a university degree. Over here, you are much much much more employable if you have completed further study following the end of high school, and you will earn more money than someone who hasn't. I know money isn't everything but that is a true statistic.

That being said, I do agree that a lot of people go to university for the wrong reasons, for example being pressured by their parents. There are many other options for furthering your education that don't involve BA degrees or university or college, such as TAFE courses and other training programs.

04-17-2010, 10:36 AM	#1 (permalink)
scottsy Untalented Drummer Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Sussex, Wisconsin Posts: 2,900	Oh I am sure it's not everyone's cup of tea, but i just think if you have the ability and the willingness to do it, why not give yourself the added advantage in the job market and avoid having to work in crappy grocery stores all your life.... It's a competetive market out there and you gotta give yourself some sort of edge, and for many, I guess further education is the answer... If you have some other talent that gives you a place in the world and you're happy with where you're at in the working world, go nuts then I say... it's all about finding that sweet spot in life where you have a happiness in the workplace... much harder to find and maintain than it is to say, though, you know... __________________ "If you're like me, then it's possible you're a clone generated from my stolen DNA. I suggest you turn yourself in for destruction immediately" - Shaun Micallef.

04-17-2010, 12:40 PM	#2 (permalink)
Minor Monster Groupie Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2	Im 26 and I only have an AA degree which means next to ****. I went to a 4 year college for a semester and a half and dropped out, now I owe an insane amount of money from loans. I would suggest to anyone that is in school, to stay, why the hell not? I want to go back but I probably wont. Ill chase this dream that I have barely contributed to in months, a dream that has a 99% failure probability, probably 99.9% when you factor in my procrastination skills... Im probably going nowhere. If I had a degree I wouldnt be working in the hell that I do with no chance of promotion of any kind. Im also getting kicked out of the place I live and dont know what im gonna do ok done bitching __________________ The music hall a costly bow The music all is lost for now To a muted trumpeter swan Columnated ruins domino

04-17-2010, 01:14 PM	#3 (permalink)
Urban Hat€monger ? The Sexual Intellectual Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere cooler than you Posts: 18,626	I think it's a shame that so many people seem to think that it's either collage/university or a life spent in pointless shitty jobs. There are plenty of other ways to further your education and if you think that all there is to it then it's you that's missing out. That's the route I took. never been in debt , always been earning money and basically was getting paid to learn. I earn just as much money now as most people I know who went to collage/university the only difference is I didn't have a massive debt to pay off for the privilege. Was it that I was lucky? No I just put the effort it. __________________ Urb's RYM Stuff Most people sell their soul to the devil, but the devil sells his soul to Nick Cave.

04-17-2010, 02:36 PM	#8 (permalink)
lucifer_sam Unrepentant Ass-Mod Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 3,921	I like this discussion but it's so far off-topic that it's almost absurd. New thread okay? __________________ first.am

04-17-2010, 04:21 PM	#10 (permalink)
Astronomer we are stardust Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 2,894	I think a lot of you are underrating what an education can do for you. It's a known fact that those who complete tertiary education will earn more money in their lifetime than those who do not, and will be more employable. But note that I said 'tertiary education' and not necessarily a university degree. Over here, you are much much much more employable if you have completed further study following the end of high school, and you will earn more money than someone who hasn't. I know money isn't everything but that is a true statistic. That being said, I do agree that a lot of people go to university for the wrong reasons, for example being pressured by their parents. There are many other options for furthering your education that don't involve BA degrees or university or college, such as TAFE courses and other training programs. __________________ Last edited by Astronomer; 04-17-2010 at 08:02 PM.