The Profession-al Argument

Astronomer · 04-17-2010, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

What do you do with a BA in English?

Over here we joke that if you do a BA of Arts (Arts being humanities-based subjects) that your only options are teaching and academia.

It's pretty much true, I majored in English. I went into teaching.

lucifer_sam · 04-17-2010, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Over here we joke that if you do a BA of Arts (Arts being humanities-based subjects) that your only options are teaching and academia.

It's pretty much true, I majored in English. I went into teaching.

It was actually an allusion to this charming puppet play.

But yes, job possibilities can be somewhat limited for English majors. Like I said earlier, my cousin is working at a coffee shop. Her hard-earned education at work, I suppose.

TheBig3 · 04-20-2010, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

What do you do with a BA in English?

Well, I have a BA in English. I'm using it to be a smug ****. That and I'm going back to school.

I used to share your view, Sam. I wanted so badly to break free of Academia, to get a real 9-5 where I didn't bring anything home at night. When I was done, I was done.

Then I got out.

School loans may be a vampirism that Bram Stoker never realized. But if there's one sour reality that's waiting at the gates much sooner than loan payments, its that the real world doesn't give a **** about your intelligence, your drive, your ideas, or your opinion.

The real world is filled with soon to retire baby boomers, they failed to live up the the greatest generation and they hate their lives and their marriages. They grew up in the 60's and 70's and the world was supposed to all change in their wide-eyed revolution. But nothing changed except that the 2nd world collapsed.

They're done in 10 years or less. What they don't want is some miserable upstart with a sac full of promise coming in and asking them to skip the black coffee in favor of going to price upgrades for the lobby, or the software, or the way we process customer requests.

College may be bull ****, I won't disagree, but its some good experience if you're not being spoon-fed. Enjoy the hell out of it while you can.

mr dave · 04-21-2010, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog

School loans may be a vampirism that Bram Stoker never realized.

i never really understood this sentiment. mainly because the majority of people i've heard echoing it finish school then try starting their lives like they're debtless yuppies. new car, new house, new 'mature' social life - like a real adult. only, they started accumulating more debt before even starting to pay off the educational one or learning to live off the budget whatever job they land provides, as opposed to rationing the student loan to make sure you have beer every weekend.

the 'trick' is to keep living like you did as a student until you can actually afford to stop doing so.

which leads to - sleeping on the floor is honestly awesome.

TheBig3 · 04-21-2010, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr dave

i never really understood this sentiment. mainly because the majority of people i've heard echoing it finish school then try starting their lives like they're debtless yuppies. new car, new house, new 'mature' social life - like a real adult. only, they started accumulating more debt before even starting to pay off the educational one or learning to live off the budget whatever job they land provides, as opposed to rationing the student loan to make sure you have beer every weekend.

the 'trick' is to keep living like you did as a student until you can actually afford to stop doing so.

which leads to - sleeping on the floor is honestly awesome.

Well you can count me out of that club. I own nothing. I rent, I ride the bus, and I went to one of the cheaper schools in the area. The problem is, I got a job in the non-profit field and currently there isn't a way to move up or out.

At a larger company I'd have been promoted but they ran out of slots. In a better economy I'd have taken my skill set and gone for greener pastures but theres no where to go.

It also has quite a bit to do with location. The rent around here is confiscatory, but as I say, finding jobs is hell anywhere, and I can't move to a cheaper place on a NP salary and hold out for hope that somethign turns up.

mr dave · 04-22-2010, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog

Well you can count me out of that club. I own nothing. I rent, I ride the bus, and I went to one of the cheaper schools in the area. The problem is, I got a job in the non-profit field and currently there isn't a way to move up or out.

At a larger company I'd have been promoted but they ran out of slots. In a better economy I'd have taken my skill set and gone for greener pastures but theres no where to go.

It also has quite a bit to do with location. The rent around here is confiscatory, but as I say, finding jobs is hell anywhere, and I can't move to a cheaper place on a NP salary and hold out for hope that somethign turns up.

i hear your pain and wasn't trying to single you out. it's not an easy thing to overcome but it WILL pay off in the end. maybe not with a mansion and an underground garage but getting through a life challenge like this can't not have a lasting effect on your personal character.

i also graduted in 2000 with a bunch of software and IT papers under my belt. you remember what happened to the ultra hot IT industry 10 years ago?... it was awesome... and for those too young to remember - by awesome i mean completely imploding on the foolish excess that had been dumped into it throughout the 90s. when i started school everyone was pushing IT and celebrating anything associated with a computer, by the time i finished 3 years later it was all about being a plumber.

most people suck it up and move on, learn from the experiences and grow as a person. but there are some who seemingly refuse to accept that doors won't ever be flying open for their piece of sheepskin, and it's their debts that my tax money now pays for. awesome. jerks.

Freebase Dali · 04-16-2010, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

It might sound like I'm being a dick, but I'll say it anyways...

If you don't know what you want to do with your life, get out of school while you still can. Wasting your and your parents' money in an effort to pursue a meaningless piece of paper is hardly a credit to yourself. It's fine not knowing what you want to do with your life, it's not fine wasting an education going in the wrong direction. By my estimate some 60% of the kids in college shouldn't be where they are, mostly because they have ulterior motives in attending.

Unlike some progressive European countries, Americans do not have the luxury of attending school for as long as they can stay productive -- the last thing you want to do is tack a $40,000+ school loan on top of the expenses you'll incur as an entry-level professional. The notion that a Bachelor's degree is essential in today's world is absurd and overkill, especially considering most people pursue careers far outside their field of study.

I'm sure it's a great experience for you if you're really enjoying what you're doing now, but unless there's some sort of prospective financial reward, college becomes a superfluous and hindering 4+ years in terms of your professional development. Until tuition becomes more affordable, college will always be a recreational reservation for the upper class and an enormous financial hole for everyone else. The key is understanding whether or not that hole is worth the prospective investment towards your life.

A-fucking-men.

While I maintain that college is a great idea for those pursuing a career in the field they're studying, I agree that it's even more important to understand your career options in context with the real world and weigh that with your decision to devote time and money into something that's actually going to pay off.

I always hear about people going to school for artsy this and fartsy that, paying retarded amounts of money to do so... and ending up living in poverty because they somehow assumed that a degree is an automatic ticket to a better life, regardless of the market for their skill. While they can technically tell all their friends they have a degree in film or art or whatever else, most of the time, they're merely knowing all about what they want to know all about and it's not doing them any good.

Career planning is about long-term strategy. And it is most definitely monetary in nature. If you're not doing it for career purposes, then great... you just like doing it... but I don't want to pay your bills, nor should I. And if you don't mind working at McDonald's for your wage while you entertain this arbitrary knowledge in your head that will never get used, that's fine too. Just don't ask for my tax dollars to support your unemployment because you weren't smart enough to learn about something that actually pays.

(All "you's" in the above reply were meant generally)

duga · 04-16-2010, 05:11 PM

I still stand by the importance of a degree. In fact, you are proving my point. The only difference is you mention that the value of liberal arts degree is generally not worth much. I do agree with that. When I mentioned the importance of a degree, that doesn't go without some forethought. Pursue a field that will actually pay off (or just accept that you will probably be a teacher). Getting a degree that doesn't attract some sort of professional attention will be basically the same as not having a degree at all. However, having a marketable degree actually will do wonders for your career prospects, as well as being the only way that can actually happen.

Or you are a networking wiz, as I mentioned earlier.

gogojessicat · 04-16-2010, 06:02 PM

well then what do you suggest we do? drop out and work a **** job until we decide oh **** I should have gone to college? that sounds like a waste of time to me.

also -- some people value education and don't look at it as just a means for a decent job. love for learning is a way of life. and yes I realize that doesn't require paying insane tuition costs but I think that there is a problem with the whole education system and the way we don't value education as a culture..

lucifer_sam · 04-16-2010, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gogojessicat

well then what do you suggest we do? drop out and work a **** job until we decide oh **** I should have gone to college? that sounds like a waste of time to me.

also -- some people value education and don't look at it as just a means for a decent job. love for learning is a way of life. and yes I realize that doesn't require paying insane tuition costs but I think that there is a problem with the whole education system and the way we don't value education as a culture..

If you're going to college "for the experience" that's fine. Just don't expect a job to compensate you well for it.

Right now the job market is shit even for technical majors, what do you think it looks like for general arts majors? I have a cousin that graduated with an amazing GPA in an English major. Right now she's working at a Starbucks from home to try and pay off her student loans until she goes back to school in the fall.

The point isn't that you shouldn't be in school, or even that you shouldn't go into liberal arts. But if you're unsure what you want to do with your life four years down the road, it's better to stay away from something that's going to end up causing you ten years' worth of headaches when you get out.

College isn't for everyone and people that make it out to be the golden highway for people who did well in high school aren't helping you at all. I'm speaking from my own perspective but there's plenty of people -- most of my friends, for example -- who have absolutely no business being anywhere near a college campus at this point in their lives.

04-16-2010, 05:11 PM	#8 (permalink)
duga MB quadrant's JM Vincent Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 3,762	I still stand by the importance of a degree. In fact, you are proving my point. The only difference is you mention that the value of liberal arts degree is generally not worth much. I do agree with that. When I mentioned the importance of a degree, that doesn't go without some forethought. Pursue a field that will actually pay off (or just accept that you will probably be a teacher). Getting a degree that doesn't attract some sort of professional attention will be basically the same as not having a degree at all. However, having a marketable degree actually will do wonders for your career prospects, as well as being the only way that can actually happen. Or you are a networking wiz, as I mentioned earlier. __________________ Confusion will be my epitaph...

04-16-2010, 06:02 PM	#9 (permalink)
gogojessicat Music Addict Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: maine Posts: 121	well then what do you suggest we do? drop out and work a ** job until we decide oh ** I should have gone to college? that sounds like a waste of time to me. also -- some people value education and don't look at it as just a means for a decent job. love for learning is a way of life. and yes I realize that doesn't require paying insane tuition costs but I think that there is a problem with the whole education system and the way we don't value education as a culture.. __________________ for a minute there I lost myself. Last.fm Last edited by gogojessicat; 04-16-2010 at 06:35 PM.