I feel your point is valid, icastico, though maybe some people who have been on the site a long time feel more like family and so simply enjoy being together because they *do* know how they will react and enjoy that. It is always fun to meet new members, though! Whether they stay a short or a long time, I hope the site meets their needs and adds something positive to their lives.

Oh! Right-track did say that your years (6), Big3, plus his years (5) are more than 10 years (much longer than icastico's membership time so far), showing that some members have long attention spans for MB:

About why major change in the site structure is unlikely:

What I wonder is if there are ways to make small changes from within the site that make it closer to what you envision. I don't know how much power mods (or former mods:)) have over site structure. None? If none, then could moderators change the "Editor's Pick" forum in the MB Reader into a forum that discusses much of what Tore and you wanted to have in the wordpress blog...the content, if not the structure? It would still be an Editor's Pick forum...but moderators would be picking threads that discuss music as they want, controlling the content as they wish, to simulate the blog.

Right-track...did you just convert the rest of my post you quoted into a polite "etc. etc. etc." instead of the usual "blah blah blah"?! What the hell is going on?! :p:

You make a lot of valid points Big3, and I am guilty of some of these things but that's really because it's hard NOT to be influenced by groupthink.

So when a whole bunch of people constantly hate on music I like and treat opposing opinions with great disdain, I become spiteful over that kind of attitude and thus I'll often exagerate my dislike for bands that these people like.

Of all the forums I've been to, this is the best place to actually talk about my opinions without being viciously gang raped. Though there are individual members that I dislike (you know who you are) who make honest discussion difficult and keeps people from being as honest as they want to be because they don't want to leave themselves vulnerable to a douche moment.

Also, Minus the Bear are really good.

^

Yeah, you are right...strangely enough this is one of the more "humble" music forums. You really do get your ass handed to you in the few others I've checked out.

As has been mentioned, music is just a very opinionated subject. There are a lot of things you can't avoid. I think the fact that this forum is made up of a handful of stayers who become very familiar with each other is why we aren't as vicious as forums with hundreds/thousands of active users. A few here know I really love dreampop, but if I was just getting into something else and said something that made my inexperience known, I may get a few negative comments but since a lot of you know me, I won't be ripped a new ass hole.

Though I have seen an incredible amount of hate for threads made by newbies that break the rules. I'm guilty of that myself.

You know, in so many ways this forum is better than it ever has been. If any of you could have taken a look at this place five years ago, There would be no question as to why we've garnered the reputation for being elitist flame throwers. There was little to no diversity in musical taste, amongst members there was not much intelligence beyond a rudimentary knowledge of mainstream contemporary artists, and no one, NO ONE, was doing any sort of journaling or any sort of lengthy intelligent dissertations on anything musical to speak of (I think Urban started that a few years ago the last time he got fed up with everybody yammering about how this place sucks, and what ensued was nothing short of an MB renaissance). So, although it was a good time, MB consisted of a few tightly bound kindred spirits who tore after moronic n00bs with flames a blazing. To tell you the truth...I rather enjoyed it.

This place has really grown to become a very eclectic collection of musically informed personalities, musical interests are very diverse and only growing more so, The music journals are absolutely fantastic and the writing is for the most part superb, and amongst our members there's a huge wealth of information on any style or genre music that you can think of, because these days our members know there shit Trust me I used to consider myself one of the most intelligent people on this forum, and now well I'm just blown away by the depth of musical knowledge that so many of our members possess. It puts mine to shame.

If anyone feels that they have reason to bitch about the direction in which this place is heading, (trust me I have my moments too), then post more! Start a thread about ****ing music that you're interested in, and quit talking about how many tangerines your girlfriend can fit in her vagina in The Sexual Experience thread.

Post you ****ing morons!

I was very fustrated with this forum just a few years back when I felt that MB was nothing but indie fans who were straight up ignorant towards nearly everything else in music, Ethan was especially a repeat offender.

Yeah, I used to antagonize these people a ton, but over time the forum has become a lot more open minded, there's a greater diversity of tastes and interests, this forum isn't as dominated by groupthink as most forums I've been to. And thus it's now easier to make threads about music I like without them getting spammed to death by snotty 14 year olds who think indie folk, emo and genres with post in their title is the only music of any artistic merit. Had this forum been making comps a few years ago they would have been dominated by Sufjan Stevens, Okkervil River and totally lame sh*t like that.

But what I'm trying to say is, since this forum has become more friendly and the newer members are a lot more likable and capable of making non-bullsh*t arguments I don't feel the desire to be as much of a raging jerk as I used to be. Though there are still a few who can bring out the worst in me.

And I'm happy to see you're back to posting about something other than movies and video games ;)

I know! Must have had an off day. :/

I'd respond to the rest of that post, but I couldn't be bothered reading it.

Phew! That sounds like the you I know. I thought maybe you were getting sick or something.

Pfff, I know I'm getting sick...of your ****.

kidding, of course.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_zeiwDnBbNz...27s+bridle.png

Silence woman!

I don't come here enough anymore to give a ****............I choose not to come here much as i've found there's always some ****smoker who thinks their music's leagues better than anything you'll ever listen to.

I hear enough of that **** from the braindead imbeciles i work with who think nothing exists beyond The Black Eyed Peas.

I agree that there is just a touch of elitism in these forums.

"Mmphh!"

[Translation: "You may muzzle me for a moment, man, but beware: my revenge-seeking, rolling-pin wielding women friends may hunt you down in the dead of night for some 'night clubbing.' I'll try to stop them...but I'm afraid all I'll be able to say is 'Mmphh!' Oh, look, here comes one of them now!"

http://www.clipartguide.com/_named_c...part_image.jpg

"And another!"

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ZIvg_I3yHx...olling+pin.jpg

"Oh dear, I'm afraid it is going to be a drumming session, right-track. Perhaps I'll record the sound and post it up in the Music Section. It will be a fine contribution, sure to help prevent this message board from going downhill."]

It strange when you think about it music by nature isn't competitive like sports. Music is to be heard and enjoys. The main point of a forums you basicly share an opinion, but somehow it ends up very competitive, it almost as bad talking smack before a wrestling match the way people express opinions. Anyway I try to avoid elitism as much as possible because I know I can't hear all the music that's very been record and I can't know everything about "Music" and neither can they. So if someone acts like a know-it-all, I know they're not. So I don't see elitist as know-it-alls, but I understand they may not go about voicing their opinion the best way possible. Some people you have to ignore; you have to be like a duck and let the water roll off you back, (you know what I mean.)

^

I actually think music and sports have one very important thing in common: emotion. Everyone...especially those who are incredibly into music like us...listens to it because we are emotionally attached to it in some way. It is life affirming, and knowing people who agree with you on that help validate those feelings. People love a certain sports team because of a family tradition that they want to feel close to, or they followed the team from the time they were unknown, or any other reason someone gets emotionally attached to a team. The reaction to insulting someone's favorite team provokes nearly the same reaction as insulting someone's favorite band. So...now that I think about it...the way we all react is perfectly normal.

at the same time there's something to be said for wisdom and experience. while it might seem elitist to some, the flip side is that there are plenty of people who would trivialize something others feel significant amounts of passion for.

i feel no shame and refuse to apologize for calling a noob an idiot for attempting to trivialize a 6 decade career into an easy grade by regurgitating a bio for X amount of pages. someone has to dish out the tough love, coddling complacency and laziness does no one a favour.

So you are saying it is normal to be flamed when someone insults you and/or the music you like?
Well anyway what I was trying to offer was a way out of being flamed by someone who has a ****y attitude and that was by not buying into their happy horse ****. Just because someone acts like a no-it-all, it is not necessarily the case, that person could not knows it all.

Are you alluding to me? Because "coddling complacency and laziness" is my favorite pasttime. I refrain from calling anyone an idiot on the grounds there are other ways of dealing with them. Don't get mad, get even.

nope at least i don't think so. i was alluding to the now closed 'help me write a paper on Johnny Cash' thread where the OP made it clear they chose him thinking it would be an easy grade then chose superficial and in some cases mind bogglingly absurd points to use as the basis of their paper once they realized they had to do more than regurgitate a bio, or at least that's how they presented themselves.

i understand they were young and all, but they were in grade 11 and therefore almost done with high school and if they honestly thought they should be bailed out by the internet then they deserve to be flamed off a board in my eyes.

Seems to me you're making a lot of assumptions about a person based on one post, such as the motive for picking Johnny Cash. This newb was perfectly respectful and turned to members of this forum for help and got only **** in return.

We still got this rule :

There's nothing in the rules that say you're not allowed to not be knowledgeable about Johnny Cash or any other famous artist out there. The rules are in place generally to stop people acting like ****s. There was a lot of disregard for the rules in that thread and it was not by the OP.

I'm getting a bit tired of some of the chronic toxic attitudes I see on these boards.

This kind of fits in here, I always find forums better when a users post count is not put under their name sig and such, as people tend to value the opinions of someone with a post count 1000 + over that of a newbie, as opposed to taking the posts on the merit of what's in them, they just think 'oh he/she has loads of posts, they're probably right', or he/she only has a few posts, I'll ignore it until someone with more says something too'.

Just putting that out there, not meaning to have a go or anything.

I've communicated back and forth through PMs with people flamed or hounded off the boards, mr. dave, and they are usually not particularly happy about their experience. Being called an idiot doesn't help them.

Sure, it can be frustrating for those more interested in a topic if someone has no desire to learn new knowledge, if that is indeed the case. However, I feel the best way to encourage people to want to learn is to give them an open environment in which to ask the most naive of questions and make the most naive of statements...and to share with them your knowledge so that they realize there is important information they may be missing. Then they may want to look into the topic in more depth because of positive reasons.

Very true, Neapolitan, although my reason for never calling someone an idiot is that it is *always false* that an individual is an "idiot." Perhaps she lacks knowledge about a particular area, or motivation to learn about it, but certainly she has all sorts of other abilities that show great mastery and skill...such as an ability to type.

As for "don't get mad, get even," I like the saying that "the best revenge is to live a happy life." I get a lot of revenge. :D

Agreed.

I seriously hope this isn't another reference to my calling Unfan an idiot?

Seriously...

Nope. No worries. The situations I was thinking of didn't have anything to do with you, r-t. And the "idiot" name-calling refers to what Mr. dave said about feeling justified and no remorse over calling a new member an idiot.

Haha well, it took me a while to build up the confidence to start discussing music and politics again after my episodes with people like Unfan and Caveman, and the whole feminism incident.

Good. Glad to hear it.
Saves me from sticking those rolling pins you were waving around earlier to where the sun don't shine.

Ah, I was wondering if you enjoyed my women friends taking you out for a little "night clubbing." ;) Apparently they found you, since I see you retained the rolling pins after they were done with them. Momentos, perhaps, of an occasion that turned out to be more than just beating you on the head?

Wash them first, please, if you ever intend to use them again on yourself.

I don't have much new to add to the talk, except to agree that a blog on the front page would be great. We have a wealth of great material in the journal and review sections that would draw people in if it was in a more prominent format.

I think MB is in great health at the moment, sure it might begin to feel a bit stale for the older members, but this is inevitable to a point. I've never come across an online community as balanced and interesting as this one, and the community of sharing that has sprung up is great.

Maybe because I've been here a while and know am not really intimidated by any of your bull**** opinions any more, but elitism doesn't seem to be a problem to me. The big response to Big3's Miley Cyrus and Kesha threads points to an openness to the pop side of pop culture.

So...this forum is a haven for elitists and music snobs?

Like every music forum then.

You get all kinds, but I don't think of musicbanter as particularly bad. Actually, I was surprised how friendly people were when I first signed up.

Do you get many trolls/sock puppets on here?

Yes, unfortunately.

I remember I posted on another music forum that was overrun with the things. There must have been a 6:4 - Real person:Troll account ratio on there. Is it that bad on here?

I wouldn't say so. This forum is pretty well-moderated, so on the occasions we do get noobs who're about spamming or just starting crap, they're booted with the quickness.

By no means is our forum being overrun by anything but healthy differences of opinion, which is what keeps this place hopping.

I wouldn't say it's overrun with them by any means because the mod team tries to deal with them pretty quickly, but from a mod perspective it does seem like I have to deal with them fairly often. The upside is that hopefully you don't.

Thar' be your job.
What sets this place apart from others I've been to, is that you guys actually do it. Tirelessly.
I'm not afraid to say it, but without the backbone of the quality of governance in a place like this, all the great music opinions and debates would most definitely be overrun by the very trash you're trying to keep out, and this place wouldn't be able to stand on its own.

Maybe it's a way of thinking I picked up from being in the military, I dunno... Just saying.. You can have a great thing all you want, but if it isn't regulated to a reasonable extent, it's eventually going to get torn apart by those who don't respect it.

What is the name of this political forum you mention? I would be curious to see one with a format like that.

Not trying to be off topic or anything, I just don't think I have anything to contribute to this thread, if there's anything left to contribute anyway. Old forum member experiences existential crisis, aspires to Visionary Plan so he won't feel his internet life is so pointless, everyone agrees it's a good idea, idea never gets implemented, etc etc.

Actually, a new releases/new box on the front page would be perfect. I get to check out a lot of new releases in the "Albums Your Digging" thread, but sometimes it is just album artwork and no description of the music. If I'm interested, I will look it up...but it would be really convenient to have a ticker on the front page updated by the members...we all pay attention to different music, so with our efforts combined...

You get the idea.

because of the thousands of coryallens on the internet, i'm not even kidding nearly every single music forum has like 5 coryallen accounts, it's sad really

Are you being serious or ironic? If you're being serious, then it's a shame it has became more unfriendly; but if you're being ironic, yeah I've heard more then one poster say that MB was more "bitchier" back in the day.

Meh, I'm a noob and it hasn't seemed particularly friendly to me, but then I don't really help myself to be honest.

This forum has some friendly people that I enjoy posting with.

The soul/funk forum doesn't seem to have hardly anyone that will interact, and thats my favorite kind of music.


As for the question, Why message boards go downhill...


I always thought it was because Sysiphus was running them:

http://www.indorphyn.com/wp-content/...1/Sisyphus.jpg