Is Meat Really Murder?

Guybrush · 02-06-2010, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr dave

i think you're absolutely spot on with what i bolded. the modern disconnection with where food comes from is becoming incredibly sad. like the letter sent to a newspaper about how barbaric hunters were and how they should leave the animals in peace and just get their meat from the grocery store like civilized people.

although i don't think the idea that people desensitized themselves to seeing animals as 'things' is quite accurate as well. the emotional connection that a pet would have wouldn't be there but most sensible people could see the animal as a necessary living sacrifice. while large scale commercial slaughterhouses might be cold and mechanical the average farmer most definitely gives a crap about their livestock even if they know it's their last season. they don't want to harvest an unhealthy / dying animal as that wouldn't translate to a healthy family.

as for meat = murder... do i really need canine teeth to eat nothing but beans and sprouts?

Looking at what I wrote, I did generalize a bit. The parents of one of my friends own a pig farm and her mother still cries sometimes when they slaughter one of the pigs. What I should have written is rather that they may have a different perception of animals and either way, they know how it happens, they've come to terms with and they choose to do it.

I like to think I'm a bit the same. The first years of my life were spent around a farm, my father taught me to fish and pick crabs, I've helped slaughter reindeer. I feel like I'm reasonably aware of what having meat in the stores entail in this country and while there are negatives, I'm overall for it. Vegetarianism hasn't really caught on in Norway yet (there's a reason for that too), but I've studied with vegetarians from Finland and Germany. It seems much more popular in those countries.

Something related which I really don't like is when people criticize hunters while eating their industry meat meals. At least an animal which has been hunted has had the privilege of living a natural life up until the point it got killed for better or worse and I'd take my chances with that over living the life of the average McDonald's burger pig.

Arya Stark · 02-06-2010, 05:47 PM

Meat is literally murder, but it's a world of competition and fighting out there.
I'm a vegetarian because I think it's sad to hurt animals for my own well-being.
I don't preach to other people though.

Guybrush · 02-06-2010, 06:01 PM

I don't think "meat is murder" because, as Urban has already pointed out, the word implies unlawful killing. Do you commit murder every time you step on a bug and kill it without even knowing about it?

Misusing the word like that only steals away it's currently useful meaning.

CanwllCorfe · 02-06-2010, 06:04 PM

I'm not a vegan but I do have really strange food tastes. I don't enjoy pork, but I like bacon. However I don't like bacon by itself, only on a sandwich with other things. I don't like beef, but I love beef jerky. This is probably because the texture is completely different and heavily flavored. The one meat I do like is chicken.. but I don't like turkey. Not saying they're similar but they're both poultry so I figured I'd add that in. I love ham when it's in sliced form and put on a sandwich. Ham steaks are a big no no. Pepperoni and salami are both fantastic.

I could probably be a vegan but that sounds boring. I'm interested in food so I wouldn't want to limit my possibilities. I think if I tried meat in an interesting and flavorful way I may change my mind. I've grown up with it only served 2 ways: in a pan or on the grill.. without anything done to it.

The one meat I won't go near is venison. The smell of cooking venison is nauseating

mr dave · 02-06-2010, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

I like to think I'm a bit the same. The first years of my life were spent around a farm, my father taught me to fish and pick crabs, I've helped slaughter reindeer. I feel like I'm reasonably aware of what having meat in the stores entail in this country and while there are negatives, I'm overall for it. Vegetarianism hasn't really caught on in Norway yet (there's a reason for that too), but I've studied with vegetarians from Finland and Germany. It seems much more popular in those countries.

Something related which I really don't like is when people criticize hunters while eating their industry meat meals. At least an animal which has been hunted has had the privilege of living a natural life up until the point it got killed for better or worse and I'd take my chances with that over living the life of the average McDonald's burger pig.

i totally hear ya, i've been elbows deep in guts before too, it's part of what it is. it's not like animals in nature sit around together and all have nice little tea parties when the evil humans aren't trying to mercilessly slaughter them.

i'm not foolish enough to try justifying past hunts that were completely unsustainable and destructive to the biodiversity of ecosystems. but at the same time, survival of the fittest IS a fundamental of nature. seems to me we're also part of nature and as such, we're likely going to need to kill to survive at some point regardless of who's hands end up bloodied.

as for all this meat talk... i'm gonna go cook some steak now

jackhammer · 02-06-2010, 06:27 PM

Humans eat meat and will continue to eat meat. That's an indisputable fact but because there are so many of us on the planet, the methods of keeping up with this demand means that it is left to others to supply our meat instead of us hunting ourselves which means that it becomes an industry that we have no control over anymore.

I eat meat but I certainly try to eat organic and/or free range whenever possible to at least give a living animal a life that they deserve. It's still ridiculously hypocritical to feel this way when I should be of the opinion that the meat I eat should be killed by myself and cause the least amount of suffering.

The natural order of the food chain is kill or be killed and that cannot be changed due to the evolution of the world but as the most intelligent species on the planet we are grossly negligent of retaining natures equilibrium due to the massive amount of meat that we eat which leads to an accepted ignorance to where our food comes from and how it gets to our plate.

Even if 1/5 of the world's population became vegetarian it still would not change the way animals are farmed and slaughtered because demand equals money and money is king, certainly in the western world.

The little man can rarely defeat the big man no matter how hard we try or hope to try. We can only make individual choices such as eating only free range meat to at least make world suppliers create better environments for animals to live in.

I came across this video a few weeks ago and it certainly makes for disturbing viewing.

Meat.org | The Website the Meat Industry Doesn't Want You to See

right-track · 02-06-2010, 06:32 PM

Meat.org | The Website the Meat Industry Doesn't Want You to See...is the website meat eaters and normal human beings don't want to see.

Right then...I'm off for a bacon sarny.

jackhammer · 02-06-2010, 06:38 PM

I expected a more intelligent response than flippancy

Especially from yourself.

right-track · 02-06-2010, 06:42 PM

It wasn't as flippant as appears.
It happens to be very true and relative to the previous discussions taking place in this thread.
Eating meat is perfectly normal for a meat eating mammal.
Add intelligence (like bill pointed out) and you have a moral problem.
Add a little more intelligence...and hey presto! Why sweat it?

MAStudent · 02-06-2010, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanwllCorfe

The one meat I won't go near is venison. The smell of cooking venison is nauseating

You haven't had back strap

02-06-2010, 06:01 PM	#83 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	I don't think "meat is murder" because, as Urban has already pointed out, the word implies unlawful killing. Do you commit murder every time you step on a bug and kill it without even knowing about it? Misusing the word like that only steals away it's currently useful meaning. __________________ Something Completely Different

02-06-2010, 06:04 PM	#84 (permalink)
CanwllCorfe Quiet Man in the Corner Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Pocono Mountains Posts: 2,480	I'm not a vegan but I do have really strange food tastes. I don't enjoy pork, but I like bacon. However I don't like bacon by itself, only on a sandwich with other things. I don't like beef, but I love beef jerky. This is probably because the texture is completely different and heavily flavored. The one meat I do like is chicken.. but I don't like turkey. Not saying they're similar but they're both poultry so I figured I'd add that in. I love ham when it's in sliced form and put on a sandwich. Ham steaks are a big no no. Pepperoni and salami are both fantastic. I could probably be a vegan but that sounds boring. I'm interested in food so I wouldn't want to limit my possibilities. I think if I tried meat in an interesting and flavorful way I may change my mind. I've grown up with it only served 2 ways: in a pan or on the grill.. without anything done to it. The one meat I won't go near is venison. The smell of cooking venison is nauseating __________________ Your eyes were never yet let in to see the majesty and riches of the mind, but dwell in darkness; for your God is blind.

02-06-2010, 06:27 PM	#86 (permalink)
jackhammer Ba and Be. Join Date: May 2007 Location: This Is England Posts: 17,331	Humans eat meat and will continue to eat meat. That's an indisputable fact but because there are so many of us on the planet, the methods of keeping up with this demand means that it is left to others to supply our meat instead of us hunting ourselves which means that it becomes an industry that we have no control over anymore. I eat meat but I certainly try to eat organic and/or free range whenever possible to at least give a living animal a life that they deserve. It's still ridiculously hypocritical to feel this way when I should be of the opinion that the meat I eat should be killed by myself and cause the least amount of suffering. The natural order of the food chain is kill or be killed and that cannot be changed due to the evolution of the world but as the most intelligent species on the planet we are grossly negligent of retaining natures equilibrium due to the massive amount of meat that we eat which leads to an accepted ignorance to where our food comes from and how it gets to our plate. Even if 1/5 of the world's population became vegetarian it still would not change the way animals are farmed and slaughtered because demand equals money and money is king, certainly in the western world. The little man can rarely defeat the big man no matter how hard we try or hope to try. We can only make individual choices such as eating only free range meat to at least make world suppliers create better environments for animals to live in. I came across this video a few weeks ago and it certainly makes for disturbing viewing. Meat.org \| The Website the Meat Industry Doesn't Want You to See __________________ It be my music and film collection. “A cynic by experience, a romantic by inclination and now a hero by necessity.”

02-06-2010, 06:38 PM	#88 (permalink)
jackhammer Ba and Be. Join Date: May 2007 Location: This Is England Posts: 17,331	I expected a more intelligent response than flippancy Especially from yourself. __________________ It be my music and film collection. “A cynic by experience, a romantic by inclination and now a hero by necessity.”

02-06-2010, 06:32 PM	#87 (permalink)
right-track Atchin' Akai Join Date: May 2005 Location: Unamerica Posts: 8,723	Meat.org \| The Website the Meat Industry Doesn't Want You to See...is the website meat eaters and normal human beings don't want to see. Right then...I'm off for a bacon sarny.

02-06-2010, 06:42 PM	#89 (permalink)
right-track Atchin' Akai Join Date: May 2005 Location: Unamerica Posts: 8,723	It wasn't as flippant as appears. It happens to be very true and relative to the previous discussions taking place in this thread. Eating meat is perfectly normal for a meat eating mammal. Add intelligence (like bill pointed out) and you have a moral problem. Add a little more intelligence...and hey presto! Why sweat it?