Is Meat Really Murder?

Freebase Dali · 11-09-2010, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skaltezon

If that's the new topic I can roll with it.

It's the same topic. It just doesn't completely fit on a burger.

skaltezon · 11-10-2010, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freebase Dali

It's the same topic. It just doesn't completely fit on a burger.

I won't concede that, but I can see it's not my place to dispute it.

Anyhow, I think eating meat is easy nutrition for some like myself who aren't much into food preparation. But after years of depending on it I'm having ethical questions of whether to continue with it. One thing that bothers me is supporting inhumane practices of the beef, chicken and pork industries -- particularly the methods of slaughter. The fact that I'm sharing the responsibility for animal suffering with millions of other people doesn't completely quiet my conscience.

~~Sansa Stark~~ · 11-10-2010, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skaltezon

I won't concede that, but I can see it's not my place to dispute it.

Anyhow, I think eating meat is easy nutrition for some like myself who aren't much into food preparation. But after years of depending on it I'm having ethical questions of whether to continue with it. One thing that bothers me is supporting inhumane practices of the beef, chicken and pork industries -- particularly the methods of slaughter. The fact that I'm sharing the responsibility for animal suffering with millions of other people doesn't completely quiet my conscience.

Exactly how much do you know about vegetarian diets?

skaltezon · 11-10-2010, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paloma

Exactly how much do you know about vegetarian diets?

If you intend to correct me on the bold type, skip the bullsh*t and do it.

Mojo · 11-10-2010, 06:50 AM

It was a question. Give it less of the attitude in future. Especially as you deleted a perfectly civil response to post that one.

skaltezon · 11-10-2010, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojopinuk

It was a question. Give it less of the attitude in future. Especially as you deleted a perfectly civil response to post that one.

I give attitude where it's given. That goes for you too.

Mojo · 11-10-2010, 07:26 AM

She asked you a question that did not require attitude. It required an answer. The attitude was not necessary.

MoonlitSunshine · 11-10-2010, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AwwSugar

I feel like the thread is very one-sided, or at least what I've read. The people standing up for vegans/vegetarians/non-meat eaters/etc have all of these supporting statements and such.
And the meat-eaters are like, I don't give a ****, I like meat. Or **** you guys, you're being stupid, look at this burger. Or I just like the meat, I feel bad sometimes but whatever. Or we're supposed to eat meat.

I feel like it's the argument against homosexuality. What, because we started out eating meat, everyone has to eat it? It's stupid to think otherwise?
What about the fact that there are many opinions in the world, not just one.
What about being respectful to the multiple types of people who have these opinions and not shoving it in their face that they hold one that's a bit different?

I think a lot of people are just in here to be rude, and it makes for a really obnoxious and invalid debate. People like Dirty are just saying things because they can, not because they know anything. People like Loose-Lips are just answering the question like a million other people did.

I just feel like it's going around in circles. If you're going to post in this thread and try to make conversation, then read some of the things said previously. If not, then what's the point of posting in the thread in the first place? Nobody gives a **** if you're ONE more person who likes meat and doesn't give a **** about animals if you have nothing more to say on the subject.

1) I have absolutely no problem with vegetarians, two of my best friends are veggies, and while I might slag them about it, I'll slag anyone about anything so long as they know it's a joke. It's never intended as an offensive remark, and it's only ever taken as one by people who don't know me and take it the wrong way.

2) There's a logical flaw with your homosexual argument: Gay guys eat way more meat that straight guys.

3) What I find interesting about this thread is more that it made me think about my justifications for eating meat. When it comes down to it, i don't have any, other than that i like eating it, and I'm able to.

There are a huge amount of arguments against eating meat, and not that many for it. The question is whether those arguments mean anything to you personally. If (a) God (or gods) created Humanity, then he created us in a way that we, as a race, generally like eating meat. If we were not created by intelligent design, we evolved to the top of the food chain by sheer ability to survive and utilise our environment to our advantage. In rising to the top of the food chain, we have justified ourselves by rite of trial. Were another animal at the top of the food chain, they would have no moral qualms about eating us. So regardless of the philosophical backdrop to the situation, there is a basic justification for eating meat, if you want to.

There are limits, I will agree: I am thoroughly against animals being mistreated and stuffed in cages for the duration of their life, and I'll never waste a scrap of meat if it's in any way avoidable, but if need be I would kill and gut the animals myself and eat them, and I wouldn't feel remorse from the process. That may be murder, if you want to see it that way, but it personally does not matter to me, and I would never kill more than I needed.

skaltezon · 11-10-2010, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoonlitSunshine

If we were not created by intelligent design, we evolved to the top of the food chain by sheer ability to survive and utilise our environment to our advantage. In rising to the top of the food chain, we have justified ourselves by rite of trial. Were another animal at the top of the food chain, they would have no moral qualms about eating us. So regardless of the philosophical backdrop to the situation, there is a basic justification for eating meat, if you want to.

If we were at the 'top of the food chain' we'd be eating tigers, among other things. Not that we deserve any credos for surviving 'by sheer ability' anyway, when it could just as well have been luck that we avoided the fate of now-extinct species. Our race is young -- we could still disappear. Hitler rose to the top, but almost no one thinks he should be congratulated. And our sense of ethical behavior wouldn't be ethical if we just copied what other animals do, especially if we consider them less mentally developed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoonlitSunshine

There are limits, I will agree: I am thoroughly against animals being mistreated and stuffed in cages for the duration of their life, and I'll never waste a scrap of meat if it's in any way avoidable, but if need be I would kill and gut the animals myself and eat them, and I wouldn't feel remorse from the process. That may be murder, if you want to see it that way, but it personally does not matter to me, and I would never kill more than I needed.

I'm with you here, except ideally I'd find a way to exist without killing animals if I could do so healthfully. I like most animals.

MoonlitSunshine · 11-10-2010, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skaltezon

If we were at the 'top of the food chain' we'd be eating tigers, among other things. Not that we deserve any credos for surviving 'by sheer ability' anyway, when it could just as well have been luck that we avoided the fate of now-extinct species. Our race is young -- we could still disappear. Hitler rose to the top, but almost no one thinks he should be congratulated. And our sense of ethical behavior wouldn't be ethical if we just copied what other animals do, especially if we consider them less mentally developed.

1) I'm fairly sure people would eat tigers if they could!

2) I actually had a conversation about how impressive a person Hitler was quite recently... I don't like what he did with the power he had, but I have respect for the way he got into power.

3) We have no moral justification for killing other animals, I agree. However, it's not something that will ever bother me enough to stop. Given a choice between a steak and perfect moral responsibility and understanding, leading to a form of nirvana in life, I'd choose the steak.

11-10-2010, 06:50 AM	#745 (permalink)
Mojo Melancholia Eternally Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: England Posts: 5,018	It was a question. Give it less of the attitude in future. Especially as you deleted a perfectly civil response to post that one. __________________ Last.FM \| Echoes and Dust

11-10-2010, 07:26 AM	#747 (permalink)
Mojo Melancholia Eternally Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: England Posts: 5,018	She asked you a question that did not require attitude. It required an answer. The attitude was not necessary. __________________ Last.FM \| Echoes and Dust