Guybrush

I've no idea who you are responding to, but that was pure and distilled wisdom of the ages.

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anticipation

So, can any of the vegans/vegetarians here give me one good reason for not eating meat that doesn't deal with inter-species respect and hypothetical environmental conjecture?

VEGANGELICA

One good reason: Your health.

Diets high in saturated fats (prevalent especially in animal products) and high in cholesterol (found only in animal products) increase your risk of heart disease and a variety of cancers. Eating red meats and especially processed red meats is particularly harmful to health; less is better.
The Growing Case Against Red Meat - TIME

Recent studies have found red meat consumption correlates with increased breast cancer risk.
Arch Intern Med -- Red Meat Intake and Risk of Breast Cancer Among Premenopausal Women, November 13, 2006, Cho et al. 166 (20): 2253

Dairy product consumption may be associated with increased risk of ovarian cancer and prostate cancer.
Prospective Study of Diet and Ovarian Cancer -- Kushi et al. 149 (1): 21 -- American Journal of Epidemiology
Dairy products, calcium, and prostate cancer risk in the Physicians' Health Study -- Chan et al. 74 (4): 549 -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

Anticipation, the harmful environmental effects of animal agriculture are not hypothetical but occur even now. Two examples: approximately 18% of greenhouse gas emissions are due to the livestock industry; water pollution and lack of potable fresh water in many locations is worsened by agricultural runoff from crops grown primarily for livestock feed (see "Dead Zones" Dead in the Water | Environmental Working Group).

Tore, the best way to reduce population growth, which is occurring mostly in developing nations, is to reduce poverty. Approximately 1.2 billion people currently live on less than $1 per day. Poverty (due to lack of economic democracy) is the main reason people decide to have many children.

When you are poor, especially in countries that do not provide social security in old age or universal healthcare and education, then deciding to have many children is the only way you will ensure some children survive to maturity, which is the only way to ensure someone is around to care for you in old age. Children become your only source of wealth in countries where governments fail to make sure people are able to earn an adequate living and have access to healthcare.

The best way to slow population growth is to provide people in developing countries with universal health care, universal education, opportunities for employment, and access to land and agricultural products. People then decide on their own, even without the use of birth control, to have fewer children, since they no longer need to rely on children as potential sources of income and future security.

What role could plant-based diets play in the future world? Foods derived from plants are cheap and efficient to produce, using up fewer resources than diets based heavily on animal products. Fresh water and resources are scarce in developing countries; ensuring people can eat healthful, plant-based diets is actually the ideal way to minimize the use of energy and maximize calories and vitamin intake, saving energy and resources for use in helping people. Until vitamin B-12 is readily made available in developing nations, then consumption of some animal products by poor people is important to ensure good health.

If developed countries lived more efficiently...and reducing animal product consumption is one way to do this...then there would be more money available to use to help people in developing countries.

And you're right, Tore! I am thinking of the collective hive! Thanks for noticing!

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NumberNineDream

Well the one time I ate meat (ever since I stopped at the 3rd page of this thread), was the ugliest night in my life... so yeah, I found out that meat truly bothers me.
I have been feeling much better ever since also. Been feeling more energetic, lighter, happier. Life's good.

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crash_override

You forget to mention hungrier and more unsatisfied.

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TheCunningStunt

No, it's natural.

If I'm mistaken, then murder never tasted so sweet.

Gonna have a chinese now

anticipation

Yawn. Unless you're saying meat is the irrefutable, singular cause for bad health then these points are mute. Everywhere we go we are bombarded with chemicals, whether in public drinking water or the very air we breathe in crowded metropolitan cities. Eating meat in moderation, and in conjunction with an active lifestyle, will not lead to any illnesses or detrimental health effects. Consuming free-range or additive-free meats are even less likely to cause adverse effects that are noticible, whether long term or immediate.

Industrial production of steel, fuels, and especially plastics are exponentially more harmful to the environment, are carried out on almost-as-massive scales, and occur every single day in order to create a myriad things we don't need. If you're really concerned about humanity's impact on the planet you should be attacking giants like DuPont, Exxon, and GE. I suspect that, at best, your environmental sympathies are just a side-effect of your antiquated notions of the inherent value of all life, which you believe should be cherished and protected. At worst they're just another means of convincing others to be guilty about eating animals. Correct me if I'm wrong.

NumberNineDream

Well I actually have a hormone deficit, that causes me not to feel full. So I do take some pills for that, but I still have these tendencies. I have to add though, that after becoming "Veggie", eating doesn't really feel as important, and I'm even eating less sugar, when I had to get myself a bar of chocolate after some tuna sandwich -although veggies tend to become sugar addicts.

Why would you judge anyone for eating different. It's even more absurd than judging another person for his beliefs.

So you eat animals.. good for you.

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Guybrush

I think your choice of using this as your first word in response to a post which presented plausible arguments backed up by sources, a rare luxury in any debate here, is more than a little disrespectful. Even though you may be on opposite sides of an argument, it is possible to keep a friendly tone.


From what I've read, a healthy diet generally consists of good meat, good fish and vegetables. The important thing is staying away from easy sugars, like those from bread or fizzy drinks etc. I've a huge book on my shelf dedicated to the subject written by norwegian biologist Iver Mysterud which is ripe with interesting case studies of what happens for example to aboriginal people who shift from their healthy traditional diet over to a more modern western society diets .. poor people. Those who are interested, let me know and I'll write up a reference.

Staying healthy on a purely vegetarian diet without supplements would be very hard and vegetarians have to work at staying healthy. So do meat eaters, they just don't think about it as much on average I think.

edit :

By the way, interesting point about family size and wealth, Erica!

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crash_override

No one is judging you. I was just merely pointing out that not eating meat isn't ideal for everyone. Your choice to eat meat is your choice. But as I do with most vegies/vegans, I find you pretentious and condescending to people who eat meat, which isn't right. But if it helps you sleep at night, then by all means...

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