Is the Quality of MusicBanter Decreasing?

NumberNineDream · 10-26-2009, 04:58 PM

I can say easily that I'm one of the posters that rarely post in the music section, and it's not because I enjoy more trolling the lounge. On the contrary, I do visit these threads to read them, which has been a great help to me.

I just don't feel my music knowledge (or just my English vocabulary) is good enough to give reviews, or long enough posts. Tho when I try to post comments, I try (as good as I can) to give reasons and not only drop a name here and there.

kouki · 10-26-2009, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

i'm not really a big fan of the pseudo-intellectual philosophical wankery that i see every so often, it's really just an exercise in intellectual masturbation. that and the politicization of this entire fucking forum, it gets super annoying after a while. it's like people come here with the explicit purpose to act with as much self-importance as possible.

*standing ovation* This and what freebase said.I'm kinda in the same boat as loose lips.I love all music,but I'm most experienced in spanish music and thats pretty much dead.I feel if I try and post something in punk or any other genre,I'll probably end up getting a smart ass answer from a more experienced guy.

Schizotypic · 10-26-2009, 05:06 PM

Here's my question: Is this really a forum for those who love music to talk about it? Because album reviews feel to me something akin to a book report. For those members who have outside contact, when you talk to others about music, do you give speeches about your favorite albums? Do you tell your friend about all the stuff you looked-up on Wikipedia? I don't, I simply say I like this band, it's rad, I love how they do this or that.

I could use countless remarks I've come across but Big3 will make a good example for the point I'm trying to make, sorry Big3- I still think you're rad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog

This is why I advocated for the journals in the first place. Through regulation we can ensure a safe haven for quality. The masses wax and wane with thought and intrigue, but the readers section should serve as a bulwark against the crap of the unwashed spammers.

If you think the forums are going down hill, put some thought into why that might be. The new regulars we've been picking up have been high powered trolls.

Big3, I get the idea that your definition of troll is members not posting research projects. Here you are claiming that MB's best quality is in the member journals and album reviews, I disagree.

Look-up the word quality, it basically means of superior grade. What you're stating is that research paper album reviews are superior to regular posts about music. Then you even go as far to claim superiority over those who post average posts by calling them trolls. In doing so, you also imply that only the most articulate and intellectually sound posts are worthy of MB, as everything else is not just there but actually spamming the forum. Has anyone else ever considered that the arrogant politics of MB is taking from the site? That these unwritten rules to be as dysfunctionally perfectionist as possible aren't fun?

All I'm saying friends is that maybe MB is just lightening-up a bit. I think as more people joined, the forum conscious started to change from wanting to write long paragraphs about music to just wanting to explore it, which MB is great for! The Albums You're Digging 2 thread is constantly giving me music, the new Member Journals popping-up are more honest and laid back then eight months ago, and mood is starting to feel the more and more like a human community then like a study session. Big3, earlier I said that I disagreed that the quality of MB is decreasing. My point is that the quality of MB isn't in the book reports, it's in the feeling of community. Actually I think the quality of MB is increasing.

Guys, vote classless society for MB!

TheBig3 · 10-26-2009, 05:10 PM

I'll go back and read your leviathan here but before I let this get away. Troll members in my mind distract and digress a conversation with horribly clever, unfunny lines that in every way attempted to be funny.

And the best quality is not in the members journal section, the most sustained quality is in the members journal section. That being said I'll go back and read your allegations, and edit my thoughts in.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by toretorden

I think perhaps counter wasn't the right word. Feel free to mentally replace it with "reply to"

Yes but you still implied I somehow said it was going downhill - which I didn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schizotypic

Here's my question: Is this really a forum for those who love music to talk about it? Because album reviews feel to me something akin to a book report. For those members who have outside contact, when you talk to others about music, do you give speeches about your favorite albums? Do you tell your friend about all the stuff you looked-up on Wikipedia? I don't, I simply say I like this band, it's rad, I love how they do this or that.

I could use countless remarks I've come across but Big3 will make a good example for the point I'm trying to make, sorry Big3- I still think you're rad.

Big3, I get the idea that your definition of troll is members not posting research projects. Here you are claiming that MB's best quality is in the member journals and album reviews, I disagree.

Look-up the word quality, it basically means of superior grade. What you're stating is that research paper album reviews are superior to regular posts about music. Then you even go as far to claim superiority over those who post average posts by calling them trolls. In doing so, you also imply that only the most articulate and intellectually sound posts are worthy of MB, as everything else is not just there but actually spamming the forum. Has anyone else ever considered that the arrogant politics of MB is taking from the site? That these unwritten rules to be as dysfunctionally perfectionist as possible aren't fun?

All I'm saying friends is that maybe MB is just lightening-up a bit. I think as more people joined, the forum conscious started to change from wanting to write long paragraphs about music to just wanting to explore it, which MB is great for! The Albums You're Digging 2 thread is constantly giving me music, the new Member Journals popping-up are more honest and laid back then eight months ago, and mood is starting to feel the more and more like a human community then like a study session. Big3, earlier I said that I disagreed that the quality of MB is decreasing. My point is that the quality of MB isn't in the book reports, it's in the feeling of community. Actually I think the quality of MB is increasing.

Guys, vote classless society for MB!

As I stated earlier. I'm all for allowing the forums to ride the roller coaster of quality because we have a section where our long-time members who've been through most of this before and would like something a little more thought-provoking can find solace.

My definition of a troll member is, if you want a direct one, when I (for example) post something I feel is not being brought up, but ought to be and then is followed by 3 douche-clowns who want to argue off-topic conversations.

And thats honestly why I don't post about music much anymore. I figure why put effort into anything thats getting summarily dismissed by a ever increasing population of gnat-level interests that would rather flirt thread to thread like brawling squirrels than comment on anything.

Calling someone a troll doesn't claim my own superiority, it says their in the wrong thread. I.e. - hey assface, you just ruined my glorious genius by making some inside-jokey leet-speak comment no one but you and your other vagrant mall-rat friends find funny.

And I'm sorry but I disagree with your prognosis of what our journal reviews ought to be. If it was filled with one-liners like "its rad" I'd leave this site tomorrow and while some of you are thrilled by the thought of that, you'd wake up to your kingdom of wasteland being abandoned by anyone who hadn't huffed bactine through a wonderbread bag.

I hear what you're saying Schizotypic, this site can be horribly pedantic but its been much worse. You use to have to run your posts by a ****ing english professor for grammatical errors or you ran the risk of the next 8 posts dissecting it line by line.

And people are horirbly offensive, mean, and arrogant here - i'm always striving to be the best - but there are countless forums on the internet. Tons that cater to music and quality and spamming is what differentiates us from them. Many of us have carved out a home here where we can get new music, good reviews, and decent info about bands, music, tours, and tape trading.

Do we (I) put people off who come here? Probably, people leave for all sorts of reasons. But if you come here for music, you never had a problem. If you come here because you're a shut-in looking for a release and being an internet villain fulfills your needs well you came to the wrong forum.

Its in our best interest to preserve whats good about this forum, even if that can be a bit stodgy. I toss spammers, but I do very little to limit what people say. I'm abrasive, sure, but I believe people will either leave or step it up.

I don't know what to tell you, I think we have fundamental differences on this point but at no point have I ever asked anyone to write a book report, a novel, or a thesis. Length is not really what I consider the high mark of quality, or that people discuss philosophy or physics to achieve quality, but that people put thought into what they are writing.

Did you really sit with this idea? Do you mean what you say or are you posting to post? Talking with your friends is for talking with your friends. If I wanted to read 5 words reviews - I'd talk to my friends. I came and sought out a place on the internet where other people came to for the same thing, quality. Not length, not wikipedia quotes, but people who sat with something.

~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ · 10-26-2009, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schizotypic

Here's my question: Is this really a forum for those who love music to talk about it? Because album reviews feel to me something akin to a book report. For those members who have outside contact, when you talk to others about music, do you give speeches about your favorite albums? Do you tell your friend about all the stuff you looked-up on Wikipedia? I don't, I simply say I like this band, it's rad, I love how they do this or that. I could use countless remarks I've come across but Big3 will make a good example for the point I'm trying to make, sorry Big3- I still think you're rad. Big3, I get the idea that your definition of troll is members not posting research projects. Here you are claiming that MB's best quality is in the member journals and album reviews, I disagree. Look-up the word quality, it basically means of superior grade. What you're stating is that research paper album reviews are superior to regular posts about music. Then you even go as far to claim superiority over those who post average posts by calling them trolls. In doing so, you also imply that only the most articulate and intellectually sound posts are worthy of MB, as everything else is not just there but actually spamming the forum. Has anyone else ever considered that the arrogant politics of MB is taking from the site? That these unwritten rules to be as dysfunctionally perfectionist as possible aren't fun? All I'm saying friends is that maybe MB is just lightening-up a bit. I think as more people joined, the forum conscious started to change from wanting to write long paragraphs about music to just wanting to explore it, which MB is great for! The Albums You're Digging 2 thread is constantly giving me music, the new Member Journals popping-up are more honest and laid back then eight months ago, and mood is starting to feel the more and more like a human community then like a study session. Big3, earlier I said that I disagreed that the quality of MB is decreasing. My point is that the quality of MB isn't in the book reports, it's in the feeling of community. Actually I think the quality of MB is increasing. Guys, vote classless society for MB!

This is a great post. You said pretty much everything I wanted to.

VEGANGELICA · 10-26-2009, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss

Musicbanter is the best it's ever been. And this is coming from a person who has been here 4 and a half years and STILL comes here several times a day. So shut up and pick up a book if you're bored.

Also, I'd like to suck vegangelica's brain through a straw. Thank you... :|

Ha ha...this is actually very flattering, adidasss! Thank *you*!

Quote:

Originally Posted by toretorden

I really appreciate your positive attitude and your contributions to the site. You're a ray of light on these boards

When are you gonna write a journal by the way?

Oh! Two compliments in a row! How can I *not* like MB with such sweetness and humor! I actually have contemplated starting a member's journal about classical music focusing on pieces that make my hair stand on end because of the exhilaration and emotion they inspire.

I agree with Schizotypic about the community feeling. Let's say you have a friend over to listen to music, I imagine two people hanging out and listening and talking about the music as well as other things, too (lounging)...really just enjoying the feeling of togetherness and the feelings/thoughts inspired by the music. MB, to me, isn't about the quality of the musical analyses so much as the quality of togetherness and shared interest.

Schizotypic · 10-26-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog

Troll members in my mind distract and digress a conversation with horribly clever, unfunny lines that in every way attempted to be funny.

And the best quality is not in the members journal section, the most sustained quality is in the members journal section.

Thank you Big3 for not jumping down my through for using your name in that. I was just using your words to state a feeling I had in a logical manner, I think the details of how I worded it really isn't the point. What really mattered to me, and maybe to similar feeling members, is the politics, mood, and general mode of operation of musicbanter. Also it is to gain support to welcoming a more laid-back site in which just as much (if not more) useful sharing of music and the love of it can take place without arrogance and ego halting MB's group respect and passion for art.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conan

This is a great post. You said pretty much everything I wanted to.

Thank you so much! I've been wondering lately how many members feel this way... is there some division of class here?

Also vegangelica. thanks for mentioning me.

I'm honored! You're one of the people on this forum I relate to and admire most and your presence here makes the site just that much better.

storymilo · 10-26-2009, 05:41 PM

I'll agree Schizo that was a well-written post

Although I'm far from a veteran here I think I would know if the place was bad. I've looked at some older threads/posts and the environment doesn't seem any friendlier or better at all. So I definitely agree that I like the community aspect here just as much as the discussions about music.

Guybrush · 10-26-2009, 05:42 PM

I don't need every post to be a study, that's not what I think of as "quality". However, I do think that a quality post is on topic and communicates something which is of interest to other people.

The journal and many of the album reviews have a generally higher quality because communicating it right is more important so people generally try harder. I think if you want to share a thought or idea, you should always try to communicate it really well, even if it's just a regular post. Some people seem to just regurgitate whatever's on their mind without processing those thoughts into a proper presentable shape first (again the damned lists come to mind).

To Erica, a classical journal sounds like an interesting idea. It would also be the first of it's kind around here.

~~someonecompletelyrandom~~ · 10-26-2009, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schizotypic

Thank you so much! I've been wondering lately how many members feel this way... is there some division of class here?

I think theres a lot of unintentional elitism going on and it's discouraging to people - ecspecially newbies who seem to be more often yelled at than gently nudged in the right direction.

I don't want to ascribe to any movement or class or anything but I must express my disdain for people who'll insult the quality of my posts (which are on-topic and have every right to be there) and in the process exault there own. Again I don't think it's intentional but I've seen it happening.

10-26-2009, 04:58 PM	#41 (permalink)
NumberNineDream Blue Bleezin' Blind Drunk Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: The land of the largest wine glass (aka Lebanon) Posts: 2,200	I can say easily that I'm one of the posters that rarely post in the music section, and it's not because I enjoy more trolling the lounge. On the contrary, I do visit these threads to read them, which has been a great help to me. I just don't feel my music knowledge (or just my English vocabulary) is good enough to give reviews, or long enough posts. Tho when I try to post comments, I try (as good as I can) to give reasons and not only drop a name here and there. __________________ Do cats eat bats? Do cats eat bats?Do cats eat bats? Do cats eat bats? Do cats eat bats? Do cats eat bats? Do cats eat bats?Do cats eat bats? Do cats eat bats?Do bats eat cats? Do bats eat cats? Do bats eat cats? Do bats eat cats? Do bats eat cats?Do bats eat cats?Do bats eat cats?Do bats eat cats? Do bats eat cats? Do bats eat cats? Do bats eat cats?Do bats eat cats?Do bats eat cats? Do bats eat cats? Do bats eat cats? Welcome to the Black Lodge

10-26-2009, 05:42 PM	#49 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	I don't need every post to be a study, that's not what I think of as "quality". However, I do think that a quality post is on topic and communicates something which is of interest to other people. The journal and many of the album reviews have a generally higher quality because communicating it right is more important so people generally try harder. I think if you want to share a thought or idea, you should always try to communicate it really well, even if it's just a regular post. Some people seem to just regurgitate whatever's on their mind without processing those thoughts into a proper presentable shape first (again the damned lists come to mind). To Erica, a classical journal sounds like an interesting idea. It would also be the first of it's kind around here. __________________ Something Completely Different

10-26-2009, 05:41 PM	#48 (permalink)
storymilo Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,845	I'll agree Schizo that was a well-written post Although I'm far from a veteran here I think I would know if the place was bad. I've looked at some older threads/posts and the environment doesn't seem any friendlier or better at all. So I definitely agree that I like the community aspect here just as much as the discussions about music.