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jwb 08-21-2019 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucem Ferre (Post 2073793)
When I say evolved I don't mean in a genetic sense, I mean how our understanding of morality has developed. I don't think morality is genetic, I think it's a product of varying things that are genetic that I can't pin point because I'm not a neurologist. I think time has given us the ability to analyze ourselves and gain a better understanding of morality just like it has in many different things.

it arises as a function of human society (i.e. the tribe) and is based largely on the genetic mechanisms I spoke of.

The extent to which it is variable is the extent to which different human societies sieze in the same instincts to enforce different rules.

jwb 08-21-2019 04:41 PM

There is a lot of evidence for it. In fact, if you believe in evolution, it's really hard to explain how some mechanism for regulating human behavior which always serves the good of a given society and is present in every human society on Earth would not have some basic evolutionary explanation. It's just yet another arena where science makes is uncomfortable when it hits too close to home.

jwb 08-21-2019 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 2073799)
what's this evidence?

does our morality really always serve the good of society, what's the criteria for that?

can we even agree on what's moral?

I'm not seeing humans as naturally very utilitarian either

what serves society first and foremost is having a common moral framework by which you can regulate the members of said society

Society A and society B might have different specific morals, but the purpose those morals serve are much more identical.

E.g. I remember a study from years back about how they determined that certain neural activity resembled someone pondering a moral question vs a strictly logical question.

And they asked a group of people about stoning a woman for adultery, some of whom were Western and some of whom were middle Eastern. The people answered the question predictably, of course. The striking thing was that in both the Western and middle Eastern patients, the same neural patterns manifested. The Westerners were disgusted at the murder a woman, the middle easterners week disgusted at her betrayal of her husband. Both were following the same instincts, though informed by different cultures so they came to very different conclusions.

jwb 08-21-2019 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 2073800)
the idea that human behavior can all be attributed to natural selection in our tribal days is reductionist and no longer unchallenged since the 20th century

the more universal* something is in our species the more likely it has been influenced by our evolution. Especially when there's a clear pragmatic role for it to play.

* By universal I mean that all human societies have morality, not that all morality is the same.

Lucem Ferre 08-21-2019 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2073801)
what serves society first and foremost is having a common moral framework by which you can regulate the members of said society

Society A and society B might have different specific morals, but the purpose those morals serve are much more identical.

E.g. I remember a study from years back about how they determined that certain neural activity resembled someone pondering a moral question vs a strictly logical question.

And they asked a group of people about stoning a woman for adultery, some of whom were Western and some of whom were middle Eastern. The people answered the question predictably, of course. The striking thing was that in both the Western and middle Eastern patients, the same neural patterns manifested. The Westerners were disgusted at the murder a woman, the middle easterners week disgusted at her betrayal of her husband. Both were following the same instincts, though informed by different cultures so they came to very different conclusions.

Can you link it or find it?

Edit: I found this interesting article though. http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/mi...ality-iacoboni

jwb 08-21-2019 05:35 PM

I'm trying to but having a hard time finding it. It was years ago I read this particular piece.

Lucem Ferre 08-21-2019 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwb (Post 2073805)
I'm trying to but having a hard time finding it. It was years ago I read this particular piece.

I hate it when that happens.

jwb 08-22-2019 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor (Post 2073810)
I'm not dosagreeing that the capacity for forming morality is inherent, but the rules will vary culture to culture

in this way it is like language

but that still means that both language and morality have a biological basis and purpose

I was never saying that we are evolved for a specific set of moral rules any more then we are evolved to speak a specific language. The adaptability of these tools is part of what makes them functional.

Mindy 08-22-2019 06:29 PM

https://i.redd.it/h3kqsurk02i31.jpg

Plankton 08-23-2019 08:27 AM

Don't tell me what to do... lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c7NGPD9ViE


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