Steal: Scum. Kill: Accident. (single, effects)

jackhammer · 07-23-2008, 06:33 PM

Steal money or defraud:

BBC NEWS | England | Tees | Canoe fraud couple sent to jail

6 years in Jail.

Hit and Run :

BBC NEWS | Politics | Death driving offences announced
Read: 'Horrendous' sentence.

A fine and 6 penalty license points.

As usual this points to the class system in Britain. Money is worth far more than a human life. While the infamous 'canoe' case is indeed abhorrent especially in the lies that the sons heard about their fathers 'apparent' death, it pales into insignificance to the loss of life.

It seems that if you steal money from the affluent (whether companies or individuals) it is deemed more worthy of a longer prison sentence than a driver killing your son or daughter. ( this is just one of many such cases)

Britain is fast becoming THE nation of ridicule and rightly so.

Barnard17 · 07-24-2008, 03:07 AM

The legal system is about justice, not revenge. Death by Dangerous driving has a much higher legal penalty attributed than Careless driving does, where it's the penalty for careless that you're complaining about. The difference here is intent, not the crime.

It does no good to anybody if you lock somebody up for years on end for careless driving when they're going to be a hundred times more careful after they're killed someone. The canoe couple wilfully and knowingly defrauded the insurance company and so received a higher sentence. Dangerous drivers wilfully and knowingly drive badly and so in the event of death the penalty that they can receive is much higher than what you're complaining about. This isn't class divide this is a mature and unbiased look at the uses and effects of the legal system.

jackhammer · 07-25-2008, 12:28 PM

Jail Sentence For Hitandrun Driver Who Left Boy To Die (from Daily Echo)

20 months for RECKLESS driving, perverting the course of justice, leaving the scene of an accident, driving uninsured and without tax and driving dangerously as he left the scene.

While you make some valid points, this is just one of a HUGE number of cases where monetary crimes were far more punishable and recieve higher sentences than serious physical harm (death, disablement etc).

I have talked to many friends about this and they agree that it does seem to be more henious if you defraud money than kill. As for the class divide statement- I stand by what I say and they are what I have deduced from this. It is not the state across the board but I firmly believe that this is the case.

If I am proved wrong-fantastic. I can put my suspicious mind at ease. This is for debate not for finality.

Barnard17 · 07-25-2008, 03:21 PM

Case study. Proves that the Lawyers and Judge in that one case were (comparatively) negligent of Justice. Your claim that it's a result of class divide causing bias has sound basis. Doesn't offer proof that this is an across the board bias. For example if the guy had been prosecuted as Dangerous driving and the Judge had come down hard the result would have been far different. Also consider that the case of the Darwin defrauding was big news which may have caused the Judge to come down more harshly so as to be seen to be making a difference.

Your claim lacks the backing of a general quantitative statistic that suggest that this is thematic. It also lacks qualitative depth that would be gained from, for example, interviewing the Judges that passed sentence to see why they issued prison sentences for the periods that they did.

jackhammer · 07-25-2008, 04:56 PM

My 'claim' is a mere observance and nothing more. It is obvious that your use of the English language far over rides mine, yet I feel that it is a thinly veiled excuse to verbally bully my (obvious) lack of intelligence to your own.

Are not many posts thematic and lack relavant statistics (I replaced quantitive statistics for the plebians here) on message boards? If we are to provide proof for every single opinion, then we would be buried asunder in a sheer deluge of opinions and counter opinions?

Just because I am questioning the English judicial process, it does'nt mean that I should automatically interview every judge who is in practise of English law.

Because of your linguistical dexterity and succinct posting may I deduce that you have recieved some form of higher education?

right-track · 07-25-2008, 04:58 PM

He's a Uni student.

That and he doesn't like you.

Have you graduated Fal?

Barnard17 · 07-25-2008, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by right-track

He's a Uni student.

That and he doesn't like you.

Have you graduated Fal?

Not even started, begin a course in Politics come September. The terminology I use comes from A level Sociology and Psychology. I'm 19 and have just had a gap year, during which I've done absolutely nothing involving politics or debate. I'm either going to get my linguistic skills destroyed come start of term, or I'm going to get my hope for the future of this nation destroyed when I realise what a bunch of lazy, incompetent wasters we're sending into the HE system just because it looks good if everyone has a degree. I'm already expecting the latter but fervently hoping the former.

And Jackhammer, you'll notice my posts aren't putting down your theories and opinions but encouraging you to do much research into the basis of them. I haven't done that research, which is why I'm not stating a formed counter-opinion. It is through questioning ourselves that we learn.

"If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things." - Rene Descartes.

Go to your local Crown or Magistrates court and sit in on a few cases in the public galleries. For the most part you'll be bored ****less but every now and then you'll come across some genius piece of melodrama being played out. If you get a chance to talk to anybody who works there then do so. It's very easy to poo-poo a system based upon the stories that the media chooses to focus on but at the end of the day a journalist is writing to an audience without any direct response. Actually talking to someone who works within the legal system could throw a very different view on why the sentencing system is laid out the way it is. You'll also learn a hell of a lot more than 90% of the MPs that voted the bill into play.

right-track · 07-25-2008, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fal

Not even started, begin a course in Politics come September.

Well good luck with that. For some reason I imagined you older.
Anywhere interesting?

adidasss · 07-25-2008, 05:05 PM

Isn't he still a teenager? How can he graduate from Uni?

right-track · 07-25-2008, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adidasss

Isn't he still a teenager? How can he graduate from Uni?

I thought he's done his A levels and was looking for a University ages ago...could be wrong. :/

07-23-2008, 06:33 PM	#1 (permalink)
jackhammer Ba and Be. Join Date: May 2007 Location: This Is England Posts: 17,331	Steal: Scum. Kill: Accident. Steal money or defraud: BBC NEWS \| England \| Tees \| Canoe fraud couple sent to jail 6 years in Jail. Hit and Run : BBC NEWS \| Politics \| Death driving offences announced Read: 'Horrendous' sentence. A fine and 6 penalty license points. As usual this points to the class system in Britain. Money is worth far more than a human life. While the infamous 'canoe' case is indeed abhorrent especially in the lies that the sons heard about their fathers 'apparent' death, it pales into insignificance to the loss of life. It seems that if you steal money from the affluent (whether companies or individuals) it is deemed more worthy of a longer prison sentence than a driver killing your son or daughter. ( this is just one of many such cases) Britain is fast becoming THE nation of ridicule and rightly so. __________________ It be my music and film collection. “A cynic by experience, a romantic by inclination and now a hero by necessity.”

07-25-2008, 12:28 PM	#3 (permalink)
jackhammer Ba and Be. Join Date: May 2007 Location: This Is England Posts: 17,331	Jail Sentence For Hitandrun Driver Who Left Boy To Die (from Daily Echo) 20 months for RECKLESS driving, perverting the course of justice, leaving the scene of an accident, driving uninsured and without tax and driving dangerously as he left the scene. While you make some valid points, this is just one of a HUGE number of cases where monetary crimes were far more punishable and recieve higher sentences than serious physical harm (death, disablement etc). I have talked to many friends about this and they agree that it does seem to be more henious if you defraud money than kill. As for the class divide statement- I stand by what I say and they are what I have deduced from this. It is not the state across the board but I firmly believe that this is the case. If I am proved wrong-fantastic. I can put my suspicious mind at ease. This is for debate not for finality. __________________ It be my music and film collection. “A cynic by experience, a romantic by inclination and now a hero by necessity.”

07-25-2008, 04:56 PM	#5 (permalink)
jackhammer Ba and Be. Join Date: May 2007 Location: This Is England Posts: 17,331	My 'claim' is a mere observance and nothing more. It is obvious that your use of the English language far over rides mine, yet I feel that it is a thinly veiled excuse to verbally bully my (obvious) lack of intelligence to your own. Are not many posts thematic and lack relavant statistics (I replaced quantitive statistics for the plebians here) on message boards? If we are to provide proof for every single opinion, then we would be buried asunder in a sheer deluge of opinions and counter opinions? Just because I am questioning the English judicial process, it does'nt mean that I should automatically interview every judge who is in practise of English law. Because of your linguistical dexterity and succinct posting may I deduce that you have recieved some form of higher education? __________________ It be my music and film collection. “A cynic by experience, a romantic by inclination and now a hero by necessity.”

07-25-2008, 05:05 PM	#9 (permalink)
adidasss Slavic gay sauce Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Abu Dhabi Posts: 7,993	Isn't he still a teenager? How can he graduate from Uni? __________________ “Think of what a paradise this world would be if men were kind and wise.” - Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle. Last.fm

07-24-2008, 03:07 AM	#2 (permalink)
Barnard17 My home? Discabled, Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bristol, UK Posts: 204	The legal system is about justice, not revenge. Death by Dangerous driving has a much higher legal penalty attributed than Careless driving does, where it's the penalty for careless that you're complaining about. The difference here is intent, not the crime. It does no good to anybody if you lock somebody up for years on end for careless driving when they're going to be a hundred times more careful after they're killed someone. The canoe couple wilfully and knowingly defrauded the insurance company and so received a higher sentence. Dangerous drivers wilfully and knowingly drive badly and so in the event of death the penalty that they can receive is much higher than what you're complaining about. This isn't class divide this is a mature and unbiased look at the uses and effects of the legal system.

07-25-2008, 03:21 PM	#4 (permalink)
Barnard17 My home? Discabled, Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bristol, UK Posts: 204	Case study. Proves that the Lawyers and Judge in that one case were (comparatively) negligent of Justice. Your claim that it's a result of class divide causing bias has sound basis. Doesn't offer proof that this is an across the board bias. For example if the guy had been prosecuted as Dangerous driving and the Judge had come down hard the result would have been far different. Also consider that the case of the Darwin defrauding was big news which may have caused the Judge to come down more harshly so as to be seen to be making a difference. Your claim lacks the backing of a general quantitative statistic that suggest that this is thematic. It also lacks qualitative depth that would be gained from, for example, interviewing the Judges that passed sentence to see why they issued prison sentences for the periods that they did.

07-25-2008, 04:58 PM	#6 (permalink)
right-track Atchin' Akai Join Date: May 2005 Location: Unamerica Posts: 8,723	He's a Uni student. That and he doesn't like you. Have you graduated Fal?