How comes every time the news reports a case of child abduction (track, quote) - Music Banter Music Banter

Go Back   Music Banter > Community Center > The Lounge
Register Blogging Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Welcome to Music Banter Forum! Make sure to register - it's free and very quick! You have to register before you can post and participate in our discussions with over 70,000 other registered members. After you create your free account, you will be able to customize many options, you will have the full access to over 1,100,000 posts.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-13-2008, 03:49 PM   #1 (permalink)
Freeskier
 
jibber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Istanbul was Constantinople now it's Istanbul not Constantinople...
Posts: 1,544
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unfan View Post
You'll live.
What's wrong? after your big speech I would have thought you'd be able to discuss your opinions. Enlighten us; why is it that watching a child get raped (and enjoying it) isn't wrong? It's interesting that you were so articulate and outspoken before and yet the minute your opinions are questioned you clam up with a sarcastic remark like that and try to deflect all attention from yourself.
__________________
What you've done becomes the judge of what you're going to do -- especially in other people's minds. When you're traveling, you are what you are right there and then. People don't have your past to hold against you. No yesterdays on the road.
William Least Heat Moon, Blue Highways


Your toughest competitor lives in your head. Some days his name is fear, or pain, or gravity. Stomp his ass.

HOOKED ON THE WHITE POWDER
jibber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2008, 03:55 PM   #2 (permalink)
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Methville
Posts: 2,116
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jibber View Post
Enlighten us; why is it that watching a child get raped (and enjoying it) isn't wrong?
Because it in and of itself doesn't harm a non-consenting party. Providing a market for harm isn't the same thing as causing harm. Enjoying something, no matter how depraved it may be, isn't damaging. The rape is bad because the child is unconsenting. When you rape someone you deny them of their rights, you're impeding their freedom. That is why rape shouldn't be permissable. However, simply watching something doesn't take away any rights, and quite the opposite taking away someone's right to watch something impedes their freedoms.

Quote:
It's interesting that you were so articulate and outspoken before and yet the minute your opinions are questioned you clam up with a sarcastic remark like that and try to deflect all attention from yourself.
Oh?
The Unfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2008, 04:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
Freeskier
 
jibber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Istanbul was Constantinople now it's Istanbul not Constantinople...
Posts: 1,544
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unfan View Post
Because it in and of itself doesn't harm a non-consenting party. Providing a market for harm isn't the same thing as causing harm. Enjoying something, no matter how depraved it may be, isn't damaging. The rape is bad because the child is unconsenting. When you rape someone you deny them of their rights, you're impeding their freedom. That is why rape shouldn't be permissable. However, simply watching something doesn't take away any rights, and quite the opposite taking away someone's right to watch something impedes their freedoms.

Oh?

you're right, simply watching something doens't take away any rights, but it condones the act of taking away someone's rights. It IS harful because it is the reason that kids are being harmed. Posessing child porn is making it easier for the makers to commit the crime. It puts money in their pockets, it gives them the resources to film children being raped and distribute it. You talk as if the pedophiles watching these tapes are watching actors, as if they are enjoying something that is sick and twisted but in reality, no one got hurt. Those kids aren't actors, and this is one of the very VERY few situations in life that is black and white. Those kids would not be hurt if there wasn't a reason to do it. The people who buy those tapes are giving the men raping them a reason to do it. We're not discussing the intricacies of guilt or harm in a legal textbook, we're discussing someone who is facilitating the rape of a child. It's wrong, it IS harmful though not by direct hand. Wheather directly or indirectly, people who make and people who WATCH child porn are all doing harm.
__________________
What you've done becomes the judge of what you're going to do -- especially in other people's minds. When you're traveling, you are what you are right there and then. People don't have your past to hold against you. No yesterdays on the road.
William Least Heat Moon, Blue Highways


Your toughest competitor lives in your head. Some days his name is fear, or pain, or gravity. Stomp his ass.

HOOKED ON THE WHITE POWDER
jibber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2008, 04:30 PM   #4 (permalink)
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Methville
Posts: 2,116
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jibber View Post
Posessing child porn is making it easier for the makers to commit the crime. It puts money in their pockets, it gives them the resources to film children being raped and distribute it.
This is bad how? You create a job market and strengthen the economy all without hurting someone. The people hurting the children should be punished, but the consumer and the market shouldn't be punished as they didn't actually do anything wrong. It'd be like penalizing someone because they laughed at a car wreck, or for downloading footage of someone being killed.

Quote:
You talk as if the pedophiles watching these tapes are watching actors, as if they are enjoying something that is sick and twisted but in reality, no one got hurt. Those kids aren't actors, and this is one of the very VERY few situations in life that is black and white.
I agree they're not actors and that what is being done to them is very, very bad. To be honest it is probably one of the most disgusting examples of human depravity, and it churns my stomach just thinking about the sick bastards comitting such acts. However, I still stand by the idea that nobody should be punished for feeling enjoyment, or for owning something that brings said enjoyment as long as they themselves don't impede the rights and freedoms of others, and I'll be damned if watching a video in the privacy of my own home is damaging to anyone.

Quote:
However, Those kids would not be hurt if there wasn't a reason to do it. The people who buy those tapes are giving the men raping them a reason to do it.
What if their reason isn't because its marketable, but rather the marketability is just an aside?

Quote:
We're not discussing the intricacies of guilt or harm in a legal textbook, we're discussing someone who is facilitating the rape of a child. It's wrong, it IS harmful though not by direct hand. Wheather directly or indirectly, people who make and people who WATCH child porn are all doing harm.
And this seems to be the notion we're not agreeing on.
The Unfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2008, 04:38 PM   #5 (permalink)
Groupie
 
Chronotub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SE London
Posts: 36
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unfan View Post
This is bad how? You create a job market and strengthen the economy all without hurting someone. The people hurting the children should be punished, but the consumer and the market shouldn't be punished as they didn't actually do anything wrong. It'd be like penalizing someone because they laughed at a car wreck, or for downloading footage of someone being killed.
it is bad because they are supporting it and encouraging those who make it, so yes, it does hurt people

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unfan View Post
I agree they're not actors and that what is being done to them is very, very bad. To be honest it is probably one of the most disgusting examples of human depravity, and it churns my stomach just thinking about the sick bastards comitting such acts.
yet you feel it's ok to support and encourage such acts?
__________________
Charlie don't surf!
Chronotub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2008, 04:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
Freeskier
 
jibber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Istanbul was Constantinople now it's Istanbul not Constantinople...
Posts: 1,544
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unfan View Post
This is bad how? You create a job market and strengthen the economy all without hurting someone. The people hurting the children should be punished, but the consumer and the market shouldn't be punished as they didn't actually do anything wrong. It'd be like penalizing someone because they laughed at a car wreck, or for downloading footage of someone being killed.

I agree they're not actors and that what is being done to them is very, very bad. To be honest it is probably one of the most disgusting examples of human depravity, and it churns my stomach just thinking about the sick bastards comitting such acts. However, I still stand by the idea that nobody should be punished for feeling enjoyment, or for owning something that brings said enjoyment as long as they themselves don't impede the rights and freedoms of others, and I'll be damned if watching a video in the privacy of my own home is damaging to anyone.

What if their reason isn't because its marketable, but rather the marketability is just an aside?

And this seems to be the notion we're not agreeing on.
No, we're not agreeing on that notion, mostly because you seem to be incapable of comprehending cause and effect in this situation. Pedophiles buying the videos put money into the pockets of those doing the crime. I've said all I can say on this issue, because we are both repeating ourselved. The fact remains that possessing child porn in not an isolated incident. It does not start and end with the videotape that was bought or downloaded. It started with a child being raped for the purpose of selling the video footage to pedophiles. It then transfered to the person who buys that videotape, which brings it back to the person who commited the rape by giving them more money, and more resources. There is a DIRECT connection from the person raping the child in the video, to the person buying the video, and BACK to the person who raped the child initially. Your problem is that you are viewing the possession of the video as an isolated incident, which it IN NO WAY IS. you're being obtuse, you're disregarding a huge portion of the process, and you're looking at a harmful and disgusting practice (and yes, i AM talking about posessing child porn) as a something entirely detached from the act which is going on in the video, which is not only incredibly narrow-minded, it's offensive. As of now i'm done with this issue. I'm done speaking to someone who refuses to look at the situation for what it is instead of how it appears by their stilted legal definitions. And i'm done debating with someone who really has no idea what they're talking about, because they've never seen first hand children who are growing up with emotional and physical scars after being sold as a sex slave and raped and abused for years for the benefit of the pedophiles back in north america who are simply "getting enjoyment."

oh, and just so I won't have to do this later, and so it's clear where my arguments are coming from, take a good look at this photo. That's me in the photo in the orphanage in Phnom Penh, Cambodia I spent two months working in. The girl I have my arm around is named Chantrea. She was 13 when this photo was taken, and two years before then she had been resuced from a brothel. Her parents had died of AIDS, and she was kidnapped from the street she was living on and put to work as a sex slave when she was 9 years old. She spent two years being raped for the pleasure of those pedophiles you are so adamantly defending. And yes, I know that videotapes were being made from that brothel because I read the report from the organization that shut down that brothel. Two more of my girls had suffered similar abuse.

That's nice that your world is so neatly defined and packaged. But some of us live in the real world and have actually seen the real effects of those videotapes.

as an afterthought, I would tell you exactly what I think of you and your ideas, but I don't think it's neccesary. I think this photo and my reasons for thinking the way I do do far more to describe your morals and values than words ever could.
Attached Thumbnails
How comes every time the news reports a case of child abduction-img_3783klein.jpg  
__________________
What you've done becomes the judge of what you're going to do -- especially in other people's minds. When you're traveling, you are what you are right there and then. People don't have your past to hold against you. No yesterdays on the road.
William Least Heat Moon, Blue Highways


Your toughest competitor lives in your head. Some days his name is fear, or pain, or gravity. Stomp his ass.

HOOKED ON THE WHITE POWDER
jibber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2008, 05:08 PM   #7 (permalink)
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Methville
Posts: 2,116
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jibber View Post
you're being obtuse, you're disregarding a huge portion of the process, and you're looking at a harmful and disgusting practice (and yes, i AM talking about posessing child porn) as a something entirely detached from the act which is going on in the video, which is not only incredibly narrow-minded, it's offensive.
I actually lolled at this sentence, enough to actually snort even.

Quote:
as an afterthought, I would tell you exactly what I think of you and your ideas, but I don't think it's neccesary. I think this photo and my reasons for thinking the way I do do far more to describe your morals and values than words ever could.
I don't even understand how you can assume what my morals are based on anything posted in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronotub View Post
so if I rape a kid I'm evil, but if I pay someone to rape a kid and film it for me to wack off to later then I'm totaly inocent?
Paying someone for a service isn't intrusive of anyone's freedoms therefore you paying someone to rape someone else isn't bad. Wacking it isn't a bad thing either. However, filming someone and making a profit off them without their consent is potentially fiscally damaging. You'd need the child to consent to the filming of the rape to make this work out.
The Unfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2008, 04:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
Groupie
 
Chronotub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SE London
Posts: 36
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unfan View Post
Because it in and of itself doesn't harm a non-consenting party. Providing a market for harm isn't the same thing as causing harm. Enjoying something, no matter how depraved it may be, isn't damaging. The rape is bad because the child is unconsenting. When you rape someone you deny them of their rights, you're impeding their freedom. That is why rape shouldn't be permissable. However, simply watching something doesn't take away any rights, and quite the opposite taking away someone's right to watch something impedes their freedoms.
exept by supporting people who distribute child porn you are supporting those who raped the child
__________________
Charlie don't surf!
Chronotub is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads



© 2003-2025 Advameg, Inc.