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Old 02-20-2008, 12:58 AM   #21 (permalink)
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What makes you left exactly? You're coming off like some half-wit libertarian who things all the answers are simple deregulation. But you're not very left if you're looking for less government interaction, and you arne't very left if you're supporting a supply/demand model as heavily as you are...unless of course thats not a "true rightist" statement either.

The French Revolution is the basis for what left and right means. Left = more progressive and the right = more stasis policies.
How can society progress when the government simply forces a subjective notion of good and bad? You can't really end racism if the government forces diversity. That doesn't solve any problems, it just kind of sweeps them under the rug. You can't really fix class intolerance (I'm not sure if that really is an issue anyway) by isolating them from each other. You can't fix community values by not allowing that community to value anything outside of what you yourself value. That isn't progression at all.

Government expansion isn't progression because it creates a degression of the liberties of the people where in which you stifle social development. Government regression is progressive because it creates a free thinking community where social development thrives and positive thinking is empowered.
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Old 02-20-2008, 01:12 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Ehm...how could society exist if the government didn't force a subjective notion of good and bad? It'd just turn into a nationwide GG Allin concert and society would quickly and swimmingly go down the shitter.
I don't see it being a nation wide GG Allin concert as a strictly bad thing. Subjectively speaking it could offend you, but it isn't like you have the right to never be offended. You could either go somewhere where the activity that offends you isn't happening or you could try to non-violently sway them.
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Old 02-20-2008, 01:28 AM   #23 (permalink)
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And then be robbed and shot in the head.
Two of the only things I think we should have laws against.
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Old 02-20-2008, 01:35 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Ehm...how could society exist if the government didn't force a subjective notion of good and bad? We'd have ourselves a nationwide GG Allin show and society would quickly and swimmingly go down the shitter. As much as it pains me to say, we kinda need people telling us what not to do.
kinda sounds like anarchy to me. we do need laws and regulations.
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Old 02-20-2008, 01:39 AM   #25 (permalink)
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...so you do think a government is needed to establish laws and make sure they're enforced.
Never claimed that wasn't the case. Nice try though, champ. However, the government should stay out of our private lives and not make personal choices for us. They shouldn't legislate our biasses, they shouldn't tell us what we can and can't do with our own bodies, and they shouldn't even touch religion or religious causes.

As far as laws are concerned the only laws that should even exist are ones that protect our liberties and right to maintain those liberties. That essentially means nobody should have the right to harm or kill a non-consenting party physically or fiscally. Anything and everything else should be fair game (for the citizens).
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Old 02-20-2008, 01:51 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Ah, sorry, you're right. For some reason, I took, "How can society progress when the government simply forces a subjective notion of good and bad," as an implication that you supported anarchist ideals. It'sa bit late, hah.

I agree though. Problem is, where does one draw the line? What constitutes "harm"? I personally see, for instance, denying someone a job solely because of their ethnicity as doing harm.
I already tackled this example. That person who was denied a job isn't physically or financially worse off than they were before applying for the job, except for the money they willingly spent or was taken from other means. You didn't harm them, you just chose not to help them.
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Old 02-20-2008, 03:14 AM   #27 (permalink)
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...or it wouldn't. Though all of either of us have is speculation.
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Old 02-20-2008, 03:23 AM   #28 (permalink)
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... we have historical basis? as i pointed out before, laws don't get made for no reason.
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Old 02-20-2008, 08:20 AM   #29 (permalink)
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If we are to live in a free country it is requisite that we can freely express our opinions without the government shooting us down on it.
You seem to have some sort of unsaid personal issue here. How EXACTLY were you censored? (Just to give the rest of us a small glimpse as to where the hell all of this is coming from)
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Old 02-20-2008, 09:31 AM   #30 (permalink)
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I don't see it being a nation wide GG Allin concert as a strictly bad thing. Subjectively speaking it could offend you, but it isn't like you have the right to never be offended. You could either go somewhere where the activity that offends you isn't happening or you could try to non-violently sway them.
Taking offence to soemthing is different to outright anarchy. Its more of a Hobbsian agreement. We agree to follow the laws in order for protection.

But you do have the right to not be offended. It was always just a general understanding of what was legit and what was whining, but the left is pushing its boundries and now we have law suits because prisoners are being sternly spoken to.

I agree with Oojay. Something happened. Spit it out and cut to the chase because you're unifying the most unlikely people in this thread.

*Who wants to start a pool? I call "Rot-gut ambient band not allowed to play a venue because of "poetic" explative.
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