sleepy jack

It's her unborn, unthinking fetus and will end up being her child, no one elses. It's hardly fair to stick a rape victim with a child she doesn't want, hell it's hardly fair to stick anyone with birthing something they want. Plus banning abortions just leads to back alley abortions which is very messy and will cause not only problems for the mother but problems with society in general. Clean abortion clinics with professionals who know what they're doing are a very good thing. Though I tend to stay away from argument this subject because I'm not the one carrying it for 9 months.

It's not like someone can control their sexual desires and I think everyone should have the chance to be married. It's good for a relationship and offers a sense of fidelity and security that all happy couples deserve. We can't keep clinging to old traditions especially ones that just encourage prejudices and close-mindedness. Homosexuals deserve every right heterosexuals deserve just like african americans deserve every right white americans deserve.

I think it's ridiculous it's even an issue and we should stop listening to christians on this subject, the bible is wrong on many things and half them don't understand the bible. Also dictionary definitions have been changed several times throughout the history of it, why can't we change this one too? The dictionary isn't law and basing an argument on it is ridiculous (I realize you didn't say this I'm more just stating something that bugs me when people argue against it.)

Our economy would be fucked over (even more so) if you got rid of all the illegal immigrants in our country. Aside from that I can hardly blame them for wanting to come over. The majority of Mexicans that are middle aged to older men who cross the border on there own to get a job and then they send cash to their families over the border because they just can't make fair wages over there which is The United States's fault and we have no interesting in fixing it or trying to help. America launched a huge predatory lending spree on Mexico like 35 years ago and it's been a huge factor in Mexico's now poor economic situation. Then Mexico hired an America accounting group to help sort it out and with the help of the US Government Mexico began building all the low wage malquiladoras and they working conditions are pretty sub standard for every country and have turned back allies of cities like Juarez into basically killing fields for Mexican women. Anyway, the farmers from Mexico are being forced from there land and sent to work in factories. This smashes possibly generations of culture and history for these people and take away the only life that they have ever know. Many people simply move to the city and work in the factories there for sub standard wages so they can go home to there 3 room shitty houses and try to raise there family, but many also seek the border as a possibility. Meanwhile the US continues to push Mexico into a minimum pay war with other countries to establish them as a low cost alternative to Asian manufacturing. This way US companies can keep up with there slave labor wages and at the same time save on sending it over sea by sending it across the border. The United States has put Mexico into a complete quagmire and leaves them no practical solutions to get out.

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TheDonald

It obviously belongs to the father as well.


I agree somewhat. I just think that in cases like this the baby could be put up for adoption, rather than aborted. I realize that our adoption and foster care system is already packed to the brim, but even in cases of rape as you stated, there's still an innocent child's life at stake. Maybe I'm a bleeding heart, I dunno. I just think abortion is wrong.

I think your just being a wee bit stereotypical. If abortion is banned, I don't think women will be troliing around back alleys with a coat hanger trying to abort their unborn children left and right. If it's banned, they will simply birth their children. Perhaps I'm an optimist, but I believe that even if you don't want your child, someone else does.


I agree 100% that every person has the right to be happy (within reason, we've all seen "To Catch A Predator" on DateLine lol).I'm all for homosexuals joining together in a life-long bond, but I just have trouble calling it a "marriage." But they most certainly deserve the same rights and securities as a heterosexual couple. I hate to seemingly be close minded, but that's just how I feel about it.

You have every right to your own opinion. I didn't base my stances on the bible or christianity, just on my own personal beliefs.

Our economy always needs all the help it can get, but hiring illegals is not the answer to economic prosperity.While these illegals make more than they would ever make in mexico, they still earn very meager wages here in the states, which is unfair to them. They also pay no income tax, which is unfair to the other hard-working americans who do. I do realize that we need these immigrants in order to make the cogs of our economy turn, but we must do things right, These people came here ILLEGALLY. I realize that had good reason to leave mexico, but they sill broke the law nonetheless, and should not be rewarded with full amnesty for that.

What I personally believe we should do is to offer illegals a ROAD to amnesty. Give them the option to either go back to their home country and return here legally, or let them serve in the armed forces for 4 years, and then grant them their amnesty.

I agree that they have little incentive to stay in mexico, but that is hardly America's fault. How is it our fault that mexico has no minimum wage or labor laws? I'm stumped on this one.


A predatory lending spree? You do see the contadiction with that statement, right? No one forced mexico to do anything.


This is a sad truth. Mexico does nothing to take care of it's impoverished. I have been to mexicao before and seen it first hand. It is not america's fault that mexico is in such poor shape, but we should be doing much more to help. We need to expedite and simplify the process of coming to the US legally, no excuses.


The US has been infamous for pimping out our labor. I doubt that Mexico is a "low cost alternative" in comparison with child-filled factories in cambodia and loas, but they still do the work for an unfair wage. While the wage is undoubtedly unfair, it is still money. Pimping our workload out to mexico only puts more money into their weak economy, which is helps them.

sleepy jack

In situations like teenage pregnancy which are primarily in my experience where abortions happen the father usually leave. This just happened with a friend very recently in fact and you can hardly expect a rapist to stick around now can you? Also childbirth is painful not many woman want to go through with it.

I repeat, childbirth is painful. If it was just likeshitting out a child more people would probably go through with it and then if more people went through with it we'd start having problems housing all these children because everyone who didn't want their child would put them up for adoption. I'm not big on population control type theories, in fact I detest them, but fetuses aren't humans they could be but so could other things I won't get into that is unnecessarily vulgar yet we don't impose a ban on self-pleasure.

Um...most people going to abort their child usually feel pretty strongly about getting it aborted and in some cases birthing the child isn't an option for both the fetus and the mother. There would be back alley abortions and it would be a mess, it would be a very huge problem. I realize everyone wants to believe the best for people but being optimistic and thinking everyone wants to have a child is being very naive.

If they deserve the same rights and securities as a heterosexual couple they deserve marriage. Seeing as thats both a right and a sense of security in the relationship.

It's not like we went into Mexico and said "Hey guys! Come to America and help our economy!" They just illegally crossed the border yeah for very understandable reasons and got jobs. Now theres a lot of them working, millions if you were to tell them all to go back we'd start having a lot of problems.

A meager US wave is much higher than a meager Mexican wage you realize that right? It's not like they're getting an extra dollar a year over here, that wouldn't be worth it. They're making much more over here.

So what do you want us to do? Send them all the millions back and then face the even more serious problems we would be facing? Like what to do with all the jobs Americans won't do but need to be done?

I'm sorry but are you serious? I wouldn't even want to serve in the armed forces for a year let alone four and I would hardly expect anyone else to want to serve in the armed forces especially for this war that is fucked up in too many ways to get into. Also in many ways you're sending them off to their death. I don't think I need to get into the issue of racism in the army (remember all those lovely photos in certain jails a few years ago?) They wouldn't be treated fairly in the army and that war is disgusting and should never have happened. These people just want to support themselves and their family, they don't want to die for a country they may never receive citizenship for because they didn't live long enough.

Argh did you decide to completely ignore nearly everything I typed? Mexico DID have a thriving economy at one time. Mexico had vast oil reserves that made them a country in strong competitions with others in the oil market but as I said America started its little lending campaign and held the oil as collateral putting Mexico in somewhat of a fix. We expected them to pay off loans while taking there main source of income, which isn't a surprise we've always put oil first.

Mexico's government is partly to blame for there problems but you aren't listening America can't just sit here and say "It's Mexico's problem" when it was also very much the fault of America. I'm sure if the Mexican government had the ability to just magically eliminate poverty in their country they would in a second but the fact is they don't. They aren't able to offer low interest loans or create good industry wages for people at factories, it's not like they're in the situation for kicks.

I don't think you really understand the problem with malquiladoras. These are factories set up by AMERICAN BASED COMPANIES IN MEXCIO FOR LOW WAGE LABOR. That's the key thing, people are working in conditions very similar to some asian factories. The Mexican government doesn't have the ability to say no to these factories because they're owned by major American companies like walmart and if they were to say something they run the risk of finacial and diplomatic seclusion from the US in a time when aid is very much needed but we won't give it because we have no interest in serving anyone else but ourselves. More people need to realize just how much of a pile of crap these "War on Terrorisms" and "Getting Rid of Sadams" missions are. If we really had interest in helping countries we would be in Darfur right now and we would also have been in Mexico along time ago.

How do slaughter houses benefit society? By pumping up obesity and blood pressures and creating some of the most disgusting industries ever? Anyway there's a difference between animals and unborn and unthinking fetuses. I think Animal abuse and the meat industry is more akin to child abuse than abortion anyway and if we're going to continue to argue abortion we shouldn't sit here with our apples and oranges when the oranges aren't necessary.

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TheDonald

This really is your guys' only leg to stand on, isn't it? NOT EVERY WOMAN WHO HAS AN ABORTION GOT PREGNANT AS A RESULT OF RAPE! I'm not sure why you and Crowquill think that. How many pregnancies result each year from rapes? Do you know? Without any substantial numbers to back this up, your only leg to stand on has basically been kicked out from under you.

So only bad mothers have abortions? So now all of your supposed jillions of rape victims who have abortions are unfit people?

A mother's life should most definitely take precident over the baby's. But very few abortions happen because the mother's health and well-being is in jeopardy.

Unless the mother's health is at risk, there is absolutely no reason for an abortion. If she doesn't want the baby, there are thousands of other couples who would jump at the opportunity to adopt it.

adidasss

I'd hate to further the off topic but I feel compelled to interject here and ask if you wouldn't mind clarifying what marriage is to you? I'm only assuming that it's not just about a life long commitment, but also about procreation. If I'm right, does that mean couples that can't have kids (or don't want any) shouldn't be allowed to call their union marriage either?

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“Think of what a paradise this world would be if men were kind and wise.” - Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle.

Last.fm

TheDonald

Marriage is a legal bond between a willing, legal man and a willing, legal woman. It has nothing to do with the ability to procreate, because un-wed couple can just as easily have children.

I hate to be close-minded or offensive, but I can't help but to put my foot down in this matter. Like I said, give homoesxuals all of the same rights as a married couple. Tax write-offs, whatever. Call it a legal bond, accord, have them be seen as a legal couple in the eyes of the law. Just don't label it a "marriage". It can be the exact same thing as a marriage, but I reserve that term for a man and a woman.

Like I said, I hate to be close-minded or offensive, but this is my personal belief on the subject.

adidasss

Why would you hate being closed minded when that's exactly what you are? No offense or anything...

I don't really give a shit, I think you give too much meaning to a simple word...Besides, whatever you call it legally, colloquially it's gonna be called marriage whether you like it or not...:\

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“Think of what a paradise this world would be if men were kind and wise.” - Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle.

Last.fm

TheDonald

I'm not being sarcastuc here, it's honestly not my goal to offend anyone.

I may be putting too much emphasis on a simple word, but that's just how it's gonna be. I just can't bring myself to call a relation between 2 men or 2 women a "marriage."