Barnard17

I complain upon principal. Marriage is not a religious ceremony under common law. There's therefore no good reason to deny homosexual union all the rights of, including the label, of marriage. The other option is to disallow the use of the term marriage to apply to non-religious unions.

Also, with regards to the abortion topic, TheDonald you're applying a macro approach to what is a micro issue: stating "all abortion should be outlawed" but failing to actually counter-argue the idea that there are special instances, i.e. rape victims instead relying on ad hominems and general dismissals. Bad form old man.

sleepy jack

Yeah and how isn't that hypothetical? You realize the majority of abortions, and this may shock you, don't occur between a happy couple who is going to be together forever and just aborts for the hell of it?

So the rape victim should be FORCED to keep the child she didn't want? From the sex she didn't want? Pregnant happens through rape, it's not the cause of most pregnancies but it's the cause of some and in those cases the woman should be given the choice of abortion something she didn't choose.

I never suggested every woman should have an abortion and many woman don't want abortions. You're taking everything I say out of context. Also not every child that is aborted is going to be the next Einstein or Dylan and that argument goes both ways. What if you aborted the next Hitler or Gacy? What if Jesus was aborted? I bet you Mary wouldn't have minded, God practically raped her.

See above.

For childbirth to be painless you'd have to be completely shitfaced and you might not actually be able to contract your muscles. So the child may suffocate in the process, read up before you go and use half facts for your argument.

Not all of us are upper class white americans living in a comfortable home with a comfortable job that allows us to just move to a bigger house everytime we pop out a kid.

In addition to that are you even reading what I'm saying? I was talking about room in orphanedges not families.

You're missing what I'm saying. A fetus isn't a thinking, walking, breathing human being.

There's a difference between pedophiles, drugs and abortions. Back alley abortions DO happen and WILL happen. Christ, do you actually think someone doing drugs or having sex with a child is similar to childbirth? That's twisted.

And why should you be forced to go through with childbirth? Because a bunch of conservative christians with penises that will never birth a child have dubbed something morally wrong?

It's not like we go "Hey! You illegally crossed the border? Well lets give you some money and a house and a job"

If you sent them all into the armed forces you'd be faced with the same problem because then you'd have millions of jobs needing to be done.

You know if you're going to ignore everything I say don't bother replying to it. I explained all of this and you keep repeating it and ignoring it and asking the same questions.

Yeah...hence the apples to oranges statement. Not even remotely similar to abortion. I don't really feel like getting in an animal rights debate especially if everything I say is going to be exaggerated.

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Miltamec Soundsquinaez

I think legalizing homosexual marriage, is not just to get their names on a paper, and be like 'hey, now you're just like the Jones's over here.' I think it is a way of acclimating more people to accept homosexuals. If they take this step, then kids growing up 20 or 30 years from now will be like, 'hey, yeah, I guess homosexuals have been able to get married for about 30 years now, so it's not that big of a deal to be homosexual.' You have to admit that it wouldn't be bad to at least cut down on the bigotry that goes on.
I wish we would all just step back, and realize that we need someone to hate, and to persecute, and then by realizing that, we need to begin to love ourselves, to replace the hate that was in there. I'm not referring to you Donald, but I mean the people who take it way too far.
Your opinion is respectable, though I might disagree

sleepy jack

So true that's something I completely forget about sometimes.

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TheDonald

Like I said, it's just a personal stubborn belief that I refuse to change. But if it is only a word, why would homosexuals really complain? As long as they get all of the same perks, why can't it be called something else? If I am close-minded, then so are they.

Are you even paying attention here? No one even mentioned religion. Atheists can marry and call it a "marriage" for all I care. But again, and I am getting tired of reitterating this, I reserve the term "marriage" for a union between a man and a woman, regardless of their religious affiliation.

I never said that ALL abortion should be outlawed, infact, I specifically went out of my way to point out that abortion SHOULD be allowed in cases where the mother's life is at risk. Throwing out terms like "ad-hominem" does little to further your point when they in no way apply to my arguments. I specifically addressed each argument that Crowquill raised (the only arguments being the jillions and jillions of unfit, teenage rape victims, and the mothers health being at risk). All you have added to this conversation is bickering without any substantiation whatsoever.

sleepy jack

If you think marriage is nothing more than a word than that really shows just how ignorant you are. Homosexuals are no different than heterosexuals, calling a union between them something different is just furthering this bigoted idea that they're different. Complete acceptance can only be achieved through equality.

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Mockingbird!

that pretty much sums it up exactly for me

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Is it cruel or kind
Not too speak my mind
And to lie to you
Rather than hurt you?
For after several large gins
He'll confess all of his sins
But still he'll hide from you
Hide what's inside from you

TheDonald

And neither do they occur from some innocent little 13 year old being raped by goons.

If you refuse to read what I type to you, I may was well stop typin it. I never once said she should keep it, hence the multiple times I offered the solution of her giving her child to a family who is willing to raise it. Seriously, read my dozens of replies, you may be surprised that I have actually stated that numerous times...And if she doesn't want to do that, take the morning after pill. Regardless of age, it is available at all hospitals (except the cooky catholic ones).

I quoted you verbatim.


See above.

I never said it was completely painless, but compared to a natural birth, an epidermal makes it a pretty easy task.

"The term epidural is often short for epidural anesthesia, a form of regional anesthesia involving injection of drugs through a catheter placed into the epidural space. The injection can cause both a loss of sensation (anaesthesia) and a loss of pain (analgesia), by blocking the transmission of signals through nerves in or near the spinal cord."

And my half facts are where again? Thank you.

Then make due with the space that you have. Ifit comes to murdering a child or making extra room in your house, just make the extra f*cking room in your house. Don't try to patronize me by making me out to be some pretentious rich white man.

Most children in orphanages are older than babies. It is well known that it is much easier to get a baby adopted than an older child, and last time I check, women weren't birthing 8 year olds. And if this were an issue, the government should inrervene and allot more funds for the foster care system.

And a used condom is? Prove to me that a fetus has no feeling (no nerve endings, etc). A comatose person cannot walk or breath without a respirator, but they are legally considered a human being.

You advocate the murder of innocent children, but somehow you call ME twisted? That's fresh brother, real fresh. Your argment was to legalize abortion on the basis that it would happen anyways. By this edict, all things that are illegal but happen anyways should be legalized as well. You were obviously wrong.

Okay, so you have to be a conservative christian male to be against abortion? If you cant make atleast TRY to make a rational argument, and sto pbashing religions for no reason, then just just shut up and let the grown up talk. Why must you and Fal bring religion into this? Your hatred of christianity is your decision, but don't thrust it into every debate that comes your way.

No, but why reward someone for committing a felony? So every time someone steals a TV we should give them a free surround sytem to go with it?

And americans could fill them, and the National Guard is only 1 weekend a month and 2 weeks a year, leaving plenty of time for them to work the jobs.

No, you just seem to hate america for some reason and rely on blaming the US for the world problems, rather than by relying on the facts and common sense. The US did not force mexico to take loans. And how can you tell me that creating jobs, albeit not the best ones, but jobs nonethelss, is a bad thing for mexico? You can't.

Big3KilledMyRainDog brought up the part about killing animals, bitch at him about it, not me. And it's hard to exaggerate when I quote EXACTLY what you typed...

TheDonald

So I am ignorant? If all they want is the title of marriage, but could have all the same rights, it seems like theyre the ignorant ones of the bunch. And I have the right to be a bigot if I would like to. You get on my case saying "its only a word" but you bitch about more than I am. Get over yourselves.

sleepy jack

The majority of abortions occur amongst the economically disadvantaged and children in their mid-teens. I havn't just been going on about girls being raped and there's a fact for you.

For the ten billionth time, the morning after pill isn't guaranteed to work (it only works 89% of the time) and you can't purchase it anyway if you're under 18 and abortions commonly occur amongst WHO? TEENAGERS! CHILDREN UNDER 18.

Okay then you should've had twice the chance to read what I say. You continue to exaggerate and only pick out little bits of what I say (see the rape comment you made above) and in some cases completely ignore everything I type and repeat something over and over like it proves something despite the fact my original statement answered it.

Not all woman want to deal with the side effects you realize that? You make it sound like it's all easy and no complicated at all. While in utero the baby baby can become lethargic and have problems getting into position for delivery. It's also been known to cause respiratory depression and decreased fetal heart rate. There's also the blood pressure complications, the headaches and very rarely permanent nerve damage could occur.

Once again, I'm talking orphanages Mr. put every baby you don't want into an adoption home.

Yeah but 1 in every 3 woman will abort once during her lifetime, you take that away (barring back alley abortions) and you're going to have much more babies to give up for adoption.

Prove to me a fetus is all that, you can't. It goes both ways and a fetus isn't legally considered a human being.

Prove to me a fetus is an innocent child before you go and make statements like that. You're the one comparing abortion to shooting up meth and child molestations, which is extremely illogical.

Because it's those kind of people who make these ridiculous arguments, most of which work both ways (making it pretty pointless to debate) and are trying to impress disgusting bible inspired laws upon us.

Are we really rewarding them? Do we see an illegal immigrant and give him money and a big house and whatever he wants to do we deport them?

We're not talking a few jobs, we're talking MILLIONS. There's an estimated 7 million to 20 million illegal immigrations in america. Let's meet in the middle, that's 13.5 MILLION jobs. There's 8.2 million unemployed people in America. What are we going to do about the millions of job that won't be filled?

I am relying on facts, I stated historic facts, you're just choosing to ignore them because you can't seem to comprehend the fact we're partly responsible for the state Mexico is in today.

The jobs aren't just not the best ones, they're horrible low wage jobs that you can't even support your family off of and if you can't support your family off the job why keep it? It's not helping you and taking up your time when you could sneak over the border and send money BACK to your family and support them. Really, if you were in there shoes which would you rather do? And don't give me that I'd stay in Mexico crap, you'd be hopping the border with the rest of them because you have a family to think about. I know it may be hard for you to comprehend but these are REAL PEOPLE with REAL FAMILIES, not just things and numbers. Just because they want to make a better life for themselves doesn't mean they deserved to be killed or detained.

People die trying to cross the border. Groups like the minute men have admitted that if they wanted to they could kill immigrants and no one would ever know. There are hundreds of bodies found along the border each year and these are just bodies FOUND. There's no true account on how many people die on the border every year, it's just an unknown figure we just know there's alot.

The fact you treat it like we're being invaded and we should force these people to enter the armed forces or go back and etc makes me sick. It's not even a plausible argument seeing as it's totally hypothetical so I don't know where I bother replying to it anymore. How do you think we got here anyway? By entering the native American army for four years? No we came through and slaughtered them. What are Mexicans doing, killing us, taking our land and stealing our woman? No they're Going through and filling jobs and keeping our economy, which is in a very poor state, in a better state then it would be. These are people are like you or me, were not superior to them, we're equal to them. They're not coming here with plans to take over the country, there looking for a better life, which is something everyone should strive for. What are you so worried about them doing? Soon they might seek citizenship and vote? Or god forbid it pay taxes and become contributing citizens?

I'll admit I did come off like I was saying America was the sole reason for Mexico's lack of prosperity and we're not but there are tons of other issues but America is a VERY large reason. I comprehend completely where you're coming from. It's the same disgusting ethnocentrism that seems to fill, no not fill, plague, every other American's mind like a sickness. You think because someone crosses an imaginary line in the land to search for a better life (leaving your home to go searching for a better life? sound familiar?) that they should be evicted. What about the native tribes that lived along the border? They have been forced of of THEIR land, that them and their ancestors have been on for who knows how long by invaders. Do people like you stand up for them? No because they're not "American." Displaced native tribes along the borders have become literally, indigenous aliens, exiled from their lands. I hope next time you cross the border you are detained without trial for months on end, then shipped across the border after your valuables have been stripped form you. That is all.

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