The Recreational Drug Thread (member, quote, memory, 2005, hands)

[Guybrush]

^Of course it's in your head. We don't get scared for nothing. However, the truth is that people more experience anxiety on cannabis than when sober, so anxiety and cannabis use has a positive correlation. Maybe it lowers the threshold for when people get scared or it leads to a consciousness where scary thoughts have a much higher emotional response. Maybe someone who are at higher risk than normal of suffering from anxiety have good reason stay away from the drug.

You have experiences yourself and a friend who suffered a panic attack on the drug that seems to be related with taking it. I don't see why it's so hard to connect the two. Saying it's in your head doesn't exclude the effect THC also has on your head.

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

heave together an assemblage of all the truly heartbreaking, pot-related memoirs you can get your mitts on, if you so wish; the fact of the matter is that not one of them provides any empirical evidence that marijuana, in and of itself, is a cause of anxiety.

I posted those "stories" on purpose because I thought some people would relate to it more than a scientific abstract. However, I figured you might criticize the sources - and rightfully so, so I did a search for scientific studies. Here's a quote from an article published in BMJ, one of the most influential and widely read peer-reviewed general academic journals in the field of medicine in the world.

Originally Posted by George C Patton, professor of adolescent health a, Carolyn Coffey, epidemiologist a, John B Carlin, director of unit b, Louisa Degenhardt, research fellow c, Michael Lynskey, visiting research fellow d, Wayne Hall, professor of bioethics e., "Cannabis use and mental health in young people: cohort study", BMJ 2002

Results: Some 60% of participants had used cannabis by the age of 20; 7% were daily users at that point. Daily use in young women was associated with an over fivefold increase in the odds of reporting a state of depression and anxiety after adjustment for intercurrent use of other substances (odds ratio 5.6, 95% confidence interval 2.6 to 12). Weekly or more frequent cannabis use in teenagers predicted an approximately twofold increase in risk for later depression and anxiety (1.9, 1.1 to 3.3) after adjustment for potential baseline confounders.


<--- snip --->

What is already known on this topic
Frequent recreational use of cannabis has been linked to high rates of depression and anxiety in cross sectional surveys and studies of long term users

You can read the paper at this address. The abstract part is a summary for those who don't wish to read all the methods, discussion and so on. -> Cannabis use and mental health in young people: cohort study -- Patton et al. 325 (7374): 1195 -- BMJ

[Guybrush]

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

no, the truth is that people can experience anxiety on cannabis, just as they can experience anxiety while walking down to the end of their bloody driveway.

This is your claim :

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

one is, in fact, no more liable to have a negative experience while stoned than he/she is sober

I've quoted people's accounts of having negative experiences on the drug who afterwards suffered from anxiety disorder. Other MB members have so far posted at least 3 accounts of themselves or others experiencing anxiety or panic attacks while high. I've quoted and linked to sites and a scientific study that say that cannabis can lead to Cannabis Induced Anxiety Disorder and that people who use cannabis recreationally are at greater risk at suffering from anxiety.

At this point, I don't care what you believe anymore. It's like trying to argue evolution with a creationist. If others here who do experience paranoia while high read my posts or if people who consider themselves nervous are thinking about smoking, then I hope reading my posts make them a little more cautios than they otherwise would.

Sometimes I feel like every regular pot smoker is a propaganda machine for the drug. While there are plenty of good experiences to be had from it, there's also a dark side to it - like there is with any drug. If you mention it in regards to alcohol, people say "yeah, that's true". Do the same with pot and every smoker turns against you.

[Blue]

Originally Posted by toretorden

This is your claim :



I've quoted people's accounts of having negative experiences on the drug who afterwards suffered from anxiety disorder. Other MB members have so far posted at least 3 accounts of themselves or others experiencing anxiety or panic attacks while high. I've quoted and linked to sites and a scientific study that say that cannabis can lead to Cannabis Induced Anxiety Disorder and that people who use cannabis recreationally are at greater risk at suffering from anxiety.

At this point, I don't care what you believe anymore. It's like trying to argue evolution with a creationist. If others here who do experience paranoia while high read my posts or if people who consider themselves nervous are thinking about smoking, then I hope reading my posts make them a little more cautios than they otherwise would.

Sometimes I feel like every regular pot smoker is a propaganda machine for the drug. While there are plenty of good experiences to be had from it, there's also a dark side to it - like there is with any drug. If you mention it in regards to alcohol, people say "yeah, that's true". Do the same with pot and every smoker turns against you.

I didn't mean to imply there wasn't a dark side to it. It somewhat turned on me at some point, because I was more or less abusing it. I was using it for the wrong reasons, and I was doing it with a very poor frame of mind. That was the initial cause for any anxiety. I won't disagree that people prone to anxiety, or without much mental strength may be more likely to have those kinds of experiences on it though. I guess my point was, whether you're high or not, you are in control. It's when you make yourself believe you're not that you lose it. That goes for being high or sober, but yes, being high can make you more susceptible to it depending on your personality and mental state. But like I said, it's ultimately in your own hands.

[Guybrush]

Originally Posted by Blue

I won't disagree that people prone to anxiety, or without much mental strength may be more likely to have those kinds of experiences on it though. I guess my point was, whether you're high or not, you are in control. It's when you make yourself believe you're not that you lose it. That goes for being high or sober, but yes, being high can make you more susceptible to it depending on your personality and mental state. But like I said, it's ultimately in your own hands.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

my contention is not that the prospect of marijuana use resulting in anxiety is unimaginable, but that essentially any human experience can potentially result in anxiety - thus rendering any kind of forewarning redundant. that's all. i really don't think we're in enough of a quarrel here to even call for such a drawn-out argument.

As stated in my last post, the claim from you that I've arguing against is your claim that being high does not increase the probability of experiencing anxiety. I don't disagree that a simple activity like going fishing for some may be trivial while horrifying for others.

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

...though i find the notion of a "dark side" to marijuana rather laughable, on an entirely privy level. i've had far darker experiences with caffeine.

That's good for you and I hope it stays that way.

[Guybrush]

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

it may, but it can increase the probability of not experiencing anxiety all the same (depending on the user's state of mind/his or her environment), and it's this equilibrium that renders your point immaterial. i understand what you're getting at, but you're only seeing one side of the coin here.

I'm not just seeing one side of the coin ..

Originally Posted by toretorden

Interestingly, a lot of people also use marijuana in order to deal with anxiety, so I guess it can also have the opposite effect. However, people who get paranoid on the drug might wanna be a bit careful is all I'm saying.

As I've posted, I'm aware that most people who use it likely won't have any problems with anxiety.