i get high sometimes

Are you calling me a creationist? Or are you saying that I am using 'absence of evidence as evidence of absense' or what?
Your post is very unclear.

To MHDTV, I know what causes evolution. I don't really believe you have a firm understanding of what does though.

DontRunMeOver

Yay for religious debates.

One of my friends described Christianity as "A very long wait for a train the doesn't come". Discuss.

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Son of JayJamJah

Lennon said God is a concept by which we measure our pain (then he said it again)

I have always felt fairly certain that less then 1 tenth of 1% of religious folk actually "believe" it. They like the idea, and if allowed to make their own revisions and interpretations to religious doctrines and texts can find a Church whose principals and morality they share and that gives them comfort not only in their lives but in death.

Imagine the overwhelming confusion and fear humans must have felt when they realized their own mortality. That everyone dies. Obviously this would blow your effing mind, so since the dawn of time, Man has created various religions either by the passing down of stories, the continuation of traditions or whatever manner.

No as time has gone on and our understanding of the world around has grown thanks to Science and Philosophy (and most of all experience) we have ironically evolved our religions to be more aprapo of the times. Of course no right minded person believes the bible as a historical text, far too many of it's stories have been disproved by archeology. But this does not make faith crumble, or even flinch. You see the absence of reason to believe is not comforting at all to most. We still need answers or at least feel like we do. Science in time will bring us closer and closer to understanding where we truly came from.

But we are still humans are our natural instincts to carry on traditions and find solace in the lose of friends are still as strong as they were in the days of the Flintstones. So a lot of people choose to follow. Most of them live good lives in the name of the Lord, though all are hell-bound hypocrites if their beliefs are taken literally, this is the evolution of religion which fun-house mirrors the evolution of Science and logic.

In addition it is human instinct, in times of great personal despair, trepidation and loss to search for solace, and the unknown offers very little. This is why more then 1/3 of those who describe themselves as "deeply religious" in prison became so once they got there. Or why, while not entirely true, we have the phrase "there are no atheists in foxholes" Undoubtedly when there are no more answers to be found for suffering it is easy to just have "faith".

What do people do when there team is down in the fourth quarter or bottom of the ninth? What about when a family member is bed-ridden or ill? They have faith, and don't feel the need to complicate it with possible explanations from doctors or experts, they want to know the truth, and if the truth is unknown, they almost exclusively choose faith in the best outcome. Faith is what's left when nothing else is going your way. Personal Faith is often equal to personal pain and a in many cases a welcome antidote. A sort of philosophical Oxycontin if you will.

So maybe John Lennon was right, God is a concept or if not certainly is a measuring stick for and of human pain.

boo boo

You base your beliefs on the words of John Lennon? >_>

That is a pretty damn pretentious thing to say.

Or maybe the whole idea of us all being just a happy accident and having no actual purpose just dosen't make a whole lotta sense to people.

Do you realise your own mortality? Are you absolutely sure of that?

We don't know jack sh*t about our own mortality.

More complicated things have influenced the development of religions than just that. People want explanations for their purpose in life, why we are here, what will happen to us when we die. Evolution while a nearly impossible theory to debunk dosen't offer explanations for any of these things. Like I said before it only disproves the whole "god created the heavens and the earth in just 7 days" thing. It dosen't disprove the existence of god. In fact god using evolution as a creative tool actually makes more sense than any other theory on creationism.

Correct, our understanding of this world, we don't know anything beyond that.

This is true. The Bible is just one big pile of BS after another. Its full of inconsistancies and improbabilities. I'm pretty amazed by how many people actually believe that some old guy built an arc big enough to support every non-marine animal species on earth.

That is true.

But may I ask the relevence of all this? Surely you don't think disproving The Bible disproves the existance of god, do you?

Science is important only in explaining how things work in our own reality. I doubt that some scientist is going to disprove the existence of the afterlife anytime soon.

The Bible shouldn't be taken literally at all, and since many Christians do obviously that presents a problem. The Bible has been used to justify many horrible things.

Those are some good points. I especially agree that searching for the unknown is pointless. Because we don't know for certain if theres something beyond this plain of existence or not.

Again that is all true. And it makes many of the people who follow some kind of faith especially vulnerable. Christianity has made an art form of exploiting people with faith for centuries.

I don't think the concept of god is that simple.

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Son of JayJamJah

HEY BOO BOO

Of course not, but it's a topical reference for a music site and a discussion on religion\spirituality and it helps lay out my thesis.

It's not pretentious, it's my belief. It's no more pretentious then believing in God. I don't tell people they are wrong, or that they should not believe in God. I don't insist I am right, I simply have an opinion different then yours.


The fact that you don't like a particular theory is not a reason to make another one based on no facts at all and believe it to me more logical. Calling it a happy accident is oversimplifying our understanding of our galaxy and solar system's origins quite a bit as well.

One of the major reasons I am certain all the modern religions have it wrong regardless of God's existence in any form is that they limit God to overseeing the species the Earth. Based on what we know about the Universe works and that they're all trillions of solar systems in it's infinite singularity it seems a little bit absurd to suggest this is the only one with life in some form.


Yes I do, I know I and everyone else will die here on earth. That's all I mean. Not a debatable point.


You've heard this before but...Absence of disproof is not the presence of proof. I'm not trying to convince anyone there is no God. I am only saying that every religion in the history of time has got it wrong. I don't know what's right and I am okay with that. I just don't like other people pretending they do know and telling me how sure they are I am wrong.



So why join a group that says it is the word of God!? (not saying just you, anyone)
Why not just do what is right for the sake of doing what is right in the hopes that if there is a God he would be cool with that?


It disproves the existence of God as Christians believe in Him. But I'm not trying to make that argument, it's pointless in my estimation.


Since our own reality is all we will ever understand here, I am okay with them limiting their discoveries to that. As for the afterlife, kind of an oxymoron isn't it? We know what's after life, death. Nothing left to discover.

The Koran is a better example of text being taken literally gone awry. And while I know what you mean, the bible itself says it should be taken very literally. And religion is responsible for more violence, death and destruction in modern history then anything or anyone else by far. God's got some splanning to do...


I'm glad we agree on so much, but I'm not sure what you think I am arguing, because you are agreeing mostly with the point I am making. Which is...


Religion is significantly flawed and unnecessary at best and fatally destructive at worst.


Occam's Razor would beg to differ.

There is no way to know how simple or complex God is.

God is a conceptual paradox. Faith is one hypothesis and to me it is the most flawed.

boo boo

It is a music site. But you wouldn't say something along the lines of "Bush is responsable for 9/11, because Immortal Technique says so" now would you?


Perhaps you should look up what the definition of pretentiousness is. Believing that it just might be possible that everything in existence is not just a happy accident is nowhere near as pretentious as say, believing that everyone who believes something different than you do don't actually believe it, as if someone is forcing them or something. Which is pretty stupid.

But you tried to give a simple explanation (more like a generalization) of why people believe in god. Unfortunately its a lot more complicated than just people using the idea of god to make themselves feel better. For one, if I knew for a fact all my friends were going to hell because they don't share my beliefs, I sure as hell wouldn't feel better.

This is another good example of you being pretentious.

For one, I have already said evolution can't be disproved, so you should know that when I say that, I'm also saying creationism can't be proven. I never said there was any proof in my theory, it was just an idea. And its not any less valid than you saying theres absolutely no way a supreme being could exist in some form.

The big band theory isn't that complicated, everyone knows the basic idea.

Yes, that is absurd.


True. But you don't know what happens after you die on Earth if anything at all, no one does.

I'm a strong believer in the afterlife btw. But I don't want to argue about that.

I never said there was absolute proof, in fact I'm not trying to prove anything. But I get the impression that you think theres proof that god dosen't exist, that I have a problem with.

Besides. Believing in things that can't be explained or proven, that is essentially what faith is.

Well I agree with that 100%

Though I believe there is a god in some form, I consider myself an Agnostic. And I'm a big critic of Religion. Which recently led to a big argument on DDD with some Christian members.



Because Christians actually believe what The Bible says, they believe that if they don't accept that Jesus died on the cross for their sins and repent for all their sins then they will burn in hell. So to say false comfort is the main factor in religion is oversimplifying it. Give a little credit to Mr. Fear.


Since we're talking about evolution. How about some hillarious vids of Christians trying to "disprove" evolution?

YouTube - Peanut Butter, The Atheist's Nightmare!
YouTube - The atheist's nightmare: the banana

I won't even waste my time explaining everything that is wrong with those "theories". Pretty much anyone should figure out for themselves.


Death of the body. Which leads to another thing, no one has proven or disproven the existence of souls. So therefore the afterlife just like god is completely untouchable as far as proving or disproving is concerned.

Though I have experienced some odd things in my life, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't a weather balloon or swamp gas.


You cant blame god for how people interpret his being, you can only blame him for not making it clear that he exists.

And of course the fact that no one can actually see god and that he dosen't seem to have any kind of influence on world affairs is a good reason to be skeptical, though the Christians explanation for this is that god gives us free will and chooses not to intervene.

Anyway, you can laugh at me all you want for quoting Rumsfield but. The absense of evidence is not the evidence of absense.

Once again, I'm not trying to prove god exists, since I'm not even completely sure myself. But I don't buy the idea that the Universe was just the result of some random thing, and that so many complex life forms could exist without the influence of some kind of intelligent design.

Obviously there is no need for us to argue anymore.

What I meant is you trying to explain why people believe in god. The reasons vary greatly depending on the religion and on the individual.

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