Son of JayJamJah

Okay first and foremost I am enjoy this conversation which is why I continue to have it, but lets get a few things straight. I looked up the definition of pretentious...and it does not fit.

1. Claiming or demanding a position of distinction or merit, especially when unjustified.
2. Making or marked by an extravagant outward show;

So HAH! Bite me (joking of course)

Here is what being pretentious would sound like: (and I do believe this by the by)
I know most of the people who are religious do not believe in their religion entirely because if they did they would ever lie, cheat, steal or break any of the bible (or other religious text) laws because eternal salvation, as it promises, is way to great a reward to risk.

That's pretentiousness.

Moving on...

If I believed it yes of course and i do believe God, as we know him is a concept.

"Bush knocked down the towers" etc etc. good stuff.


Perhaps you should, because you define it incorrectly, regardless I know what you mean and I think the tone of the message gets lost without the cadence and emphasis of spoken word. Much Love.



This is how I know they do not 100% believe. If you KNEW the only way to "save" people you loved was to get them to believe Gods word, you'd never rest until they believed. Does that make any sense to you yet? (he says in a authentically curious tone without the least bit on condescension)

The Big Bang theory is remarkably complicated actually. It's just not taught in detail unless you are an astronomy major like my son.

I am not a believer or non believer , I am taking the wait and see approach.

Get rid of that impression. While yes I think it's a far more logical conclusion that he does not exist, there is no proof and never will be any, so don't pigeon hole me there please.

Not essentially, exactly!


Shows how smart we both are huh?


Maybe it is but I was trying to offer a simple explanation for the start of organized religion. Yes fear plays a role in some religions but that has come with time. I am hypothesizing more about the origins of the Cluster**** we call religion.

Thanks for the links, I've seen them before, good stuff.

Here's the only place I take issue with you. Because someone can't be disproved does not suggest it might exist. Here's what we can say for certain: If there is a God or an afterlife we have zero evidence of it's existence.

I don't blame God, I blame the people.

And you don't think that's all a little ridiculous? Just saying I sure do.

Quote away just don't break into song like Ashcroft. "Let the Eagles Sore"


I beg to differ, always a good reason to debate...

Perhaps, but I still think "The search for comfort to pain we can't explain" is the lowest common denominator.

"The search for comfort to pain we can't explain" Good song title huh?

Anyway I think we agree on too much to argue much more, but lets get things straight first with all this business.

i get high sometimes

God and Unicorns and Goblins all have equal evidence for their existance.
So when people say it is 'irational to claim that God does not exist', they must use that same logic, and conclude that it is also irrational to say that Unicorns and Goblins do not exist. Do you follow me here? And if you said you did believe that goblins and unicorns exist, I wouldn't be very suprised. You do believe in God, which is no different.

MHDTV

Technically there's a 100% that everything is happening at any given point in time. Well, if you subscribe to the whole infinity concept.

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Quoted for untruth.

Finally, a signature that's chewy not chalky!

Let's agree to disagree.

anticipation

Actually there is a 0% chance that you are alive, and are thinking and doing what you are at this exact moment. It's so astronomically improbable that you would turn out the way you are, its not even funny.

MHDTV

Actually there's a 100% chance that an infinite number of you exist every moment. I'm going to start an infinite thread!

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Quoted for untruth.

Finally, a signature that's chewy not chalky!

Let's agree to disagree.

right-track

Before this thread spirals further into a spate of tit for tat insults and personal remarks.

Please keep it civil and avoid insults.

i get high sometimes

You're really going to make me get into this heavily, as opposed to inserting comments periodically. Gods existance is simple. Just because you are a believer and therefore need some dignification in your beliefs, doesn't change the fact that the concept of 'god' was introduced for incredibly simple reasons. People did not have answers. What is the easiest way to answer a question you don't have a good answer for? Invoke the supernatural.

The fact that millions of people believe in God somehow bolsters your point? At one time in history, millions of people believed that Jupiter lived on a mountain in Europe. At one point in time, millions and millions of people believed that diseases were caused by little spirits that invaded your body, and they could only be removed by draining your blood. Millions of people believe God DOESN'T exist, you disagree with this. Does me invoking the fact that millions of people believe god does not exist bolster my point? No. It doesn't help yours either. That is a weak talking point.

Next, what are miracles? I doubt you can answer that and still have anyone take you seriously. The fact that you are so superstitious is almost laughable. Grow up, you're not 8 and this isn't the 11th century. You pin yourself into a corner and have to feign belief in ridiculous superstitions to make a consistent point.

And lastly, you, like every other person who makes the same dumb point your are attempting to make, didn't answer the question. We were not arguing whether or not millions of people have 'seen God' or how many millions of people believe in God. I argued that:

Absence is disproof is not evidence of proof

You, of course, in your infantile attempts to be 'fairminded' and 'respectful' towards religious loons, argued:

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absense.

EVERYONE tries to make that point, and it never works. It doesn't work simply because you cannot extend that SAME logic to every single thing which there is no evidence against. That is what we are arguing here, and that is what you cannot (or will not) answer. The reason you won't answer it is because it effectively defeats your point. All you can do is say it is a weak talking point. How about answering it. There are millions of pagans who believe in witches and trolls. Therefore, since there is no evidence which disproves the existance of trolls, and a fair amount of people claim belief in trolls. Is it problematic for me to declare my disbelief in trolls? That is the question you need to answer. Gods and trolls are the exact same. Absolutely no evidence in favor of either, and absolutely no reason to assume that either exist.

NOTHING PROVES TROLLS DON'T EXIST EITHER. What makes you think that belief in God has more credence than belief in trolls? The fact that you believe in God? Do I base my disbelief in trolls on faith? Do you?

99% of people believe in God because their parents believe in god. They were indoctrinated. The remainder have somehow convinced themselves that there is a magical man who knows everything you do at all times, cares about you personally, and created everything in the universe. Belief in God is unnecessary and illogical. For God to have a personal relationship with all 6 billion people on this planet woud be impossible. Of course, he's God right? He just can. Thats a real cop out. How about this.

You have acknowledged that evolution is an impossible theory to debunk. That's mostly because it's true. We know that evolution brings about the existance of increasingly complex creatures. And creature capable of creating the entire universe and all its contents, must be an extraordinarily complex creature. We know that simple creatures being created through abiogenesis is incredibly rare, it has only happened once in 6 billion years, as far as we know. So the notion that an INCREDIBLY COMPLEX being like God, just came into existance, is virtually impossible. Prokaryotic cells arranging themselves in primordial soup is such an uncommon occurance, that to believe God just came into existance is ridiculous. Imagine if scientists proposed that humans just came into existance in that primordial soup. They would be laughed off whatever campus they were studying on. Believing that God, infinitely more complex than humans, just came into existance, is borderline stupidity. In fact, I think you have dived head first into stupidity if you actually believe that.

BUT WAIT! Believers in God have the ultimate cop out

"He's God, he can just do stuff like that"

My point is: Complex beings come into existance through a long process of evolution, and begin as infinitely simple beings. What created that infinitely simple being which God evolved from? Something complex no doubt, so he must have likewise evolved. What created his simple ancestors? Of course, just use your default cop out to answer that one.

No, there is plenty of evidence that crossing the street blindly can result in being hit by a car. It has happened in the past. Empirical evidence. It has been documented. If you roll a ball across the street and cars are instructed not to react to the ball at all, it will be hit a certain number of times. That is evidence, not faith. Likewise with your other examples. Cars have been stolen thousands of times because they are left unlocked. Therefore, good evidence exists that if you leave your car doors unlocked, there is a chance it will be stolen.

"Even if they are fake, it proves nothing"

Howso? If they're fake, obviously those people didn't actually see it. Which doesn't lend any crediblity to your argument that it could possibly exist. People on acid hallucinate pink elephants all the time. Are you saying that simply because someone hallucinated something which obviously isn't real, adds credibilty to their insistance that it is? Just because you believe it to be true, on zero evidence, doesn't mean it is.

I wish you would heed your own advice here, so I don't have to keep typing drawn out replies to a kid who probably can't read them in the first place.

ilmaestro13

Kudos to you, i get high sometimes. I've always wanted to write something that long and that good when talking to people online.

I hate when people use that "argument" to try and justify why they belive in God. Almost as idiotic as Pascals Theory.

Frances

the one about the earth being a giant licorice allsort? Now that is idiotic!

Sorry, I couldn't help it.

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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Yup.

DearJenny

^My griffin could kick your minotaur's butt any day of the week.

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