Son of JayJamJah

HEY BOO BOO

Of course not, but it's a topical reference for a music site and a discussion on religion\spirituality and it helps lay out my thesis.

It's not pretentious, it's my belief. It's no more pretentious then believing in God. I don't tell people they are wrong, or that they should not believe in God. I don't insist I am right, I simply have an opinion different then yours.


The fact that you don't like a particular theory is not a reason to make another one based on no facts at all and believe it to me more logical. Calling it a happy accident is oversimplifying our understanding of our galaxy and solar system's origins quite a bit as well.

One of the major reasons I am certain all the modern religions have it wrong regardless of God's existence in any form is that they limit God to overseeing the species the Earth. Based on what we know about the Universe works and that they're all trillions of solar systems in it's infinite singularity it seems a little bit absurd to suggest this is the only one with life in some form.


Yes I do, I know I and everyone else will die here on earth. That's all I mean. Not a debatable point.


You've heard this before but...Absence of disproof is not the presence of proof. I'm not trying to convince anyone there is no God. I am only saying that every religion in the history of time has got it wrong. I don't know what's right and I am okay with that. I just don't like other people pretending they do know and telling me how sure they are I am wrong.



So why join a group that says it is the word of God!? (not saying just you, anyone)
Why not just do what is right for the sake of doing what is right in the hopes that if there is a God he would be cool with that?


It disproves the existence of God as Christians believe in Him. But I'm not trying to make that argument, it's pointless in my estimation.


Since our own reality is all we will ever understand here, I am okay with them limiting their discoveries to that. As for the afterlife, kind of an oxymoron isn't it? We know what's after life, death. Nothing left to discover.

The Koran is a better example of text being taken literally gone awry. And while I know what you mean, the bible itself says it should be taken very literally. And religion is responsible for more violence, death and destruction in modern history then anything or anyone else by far. God's got some splanning to do...


I'm glad we agree on so much, but I'm not sure what you think I am arguing, because you are agreeing mostly with the point I am making. Which is...


Religion is significantly flawed and unnecessary at best and fatally destructive at worst.


Occam's Razor would beg to differ.

There is no way to know how simple or complex God is.

God is a conceptual paradox. Faith is one hypothesis and to me it is the most flawed.

boo boo

It is a music site. But you wouldn't say something along the lines of "Bush is responsable for 9/11, because Immortal Technique says so" now would you?


Perhaps you should look up what the definition of pretentiousness is. Believing that it just might be possible that everything in existence is not just a happy accident is nowhere near as pretentious as say, believing that everyone who believes something different than you do don't actually believe it, as if someone is forcing them or something. Which is pretty stupid.

But you tried to give a simple explanation (more like a generalization) of why people believe in god. Unfortunately its a lot more complicated than just people using the idea of god to make themselves feel better. For one, if I knew for a fact all my friends were going to hell because they don't share my beliefs, I sure as hell wouldn't feel better.

This is another good example of you being pretentious.

For one, I have already said evolution can't be disproved, so you should know that when I say that, I'm also saying creationism can't be proven. I never said there was any proof in my theory, it was just an idea. And its not any less valid than you saying theres absolutely no way a supreme being could exist in some form.

The big band theory isn't that complicated, everyone knows the basic idea.

Yes, that is absurd.


True. But you don't know what happens after you die on Earth if anything at all, no one does.

I'm a strong believer in the afterlife btw. But I don't want to argue about that.

I never said there was absolute proof, in fact I'm not trying to prove anything. But I get the impression that you think theres proof that god dosen't exist, that I have a problem with.

Besides. Believing in things that can't be explained or proven, that is essentially what faith is.

Well I agree with that 100%

Though I believe there is a god in some form, I consider myself an Agnostic. And I'm a big critic of Religion. Which recently led to a big argument on DDD with some Christian members.



Because Christians actually believe what The Bible says, they believe that if they don't accept that Jesus died on the cross for their sins and repent for all their sins then they will burn in hell. So to say false comfort is the main factor in religion is oversimplifying it. Give a little credit to Mr. Fear.


Since we're talking about evolution. How about some hillarious vids of Christians trying to "disprove" evolution?

YouTube - Peanut Butter, The Atheist's Nightmare!
YouTube - The atheist's nightmare: the banana

I won't even waste my time explaining everything that is wrong with those "theories". Pretty much anyone should figure out for themselves.


Death of the body. Which leads to another thing, no one has proven or disproven the existence of souls. So therefore the afterlife just like god is completely untouchable as far as proving or disproving is concerned.

Though I have experienced some odd things in my life, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't a weather balloon or swamp gas.


You cant blame god for how people interpret his being, you can only blame him for not making it clear that he exists.

And of course the fact that no one can actually see god and that he dosen't seem to have any kind of influence on world affairs is a good reason to be skeptical, though the Christians explanation for this is that god gives us free will and chooses not to intervene.

Anyway, you can laugh at me all you want for quoting Rumsfield but. The absense of evidence is not the evidence of absense.

Once again, I'm not trying to prove god exists, since I'm not even completely sure myself. But I don't buy the idea that the Universe was just the result of some random thing, and that so many complex life forms could exist without the influence of some kind of intelligent design.

Obviously there is no need for us to argue anymore.

What I meant is you trying to explain why people believe in god. The reasons vary greatly depending on the religion and on the individual.

__________________
It's only knock n' knowall, but I like it

http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs

i get high sometimes

There is no proof that God doesn't exist. No one is saying there is.
There is also no proof that goblins don't exist. Would you have a problem if I said that Goblins don't exist?

DearJenny

^What is with you and comparing Goblins and Unicorns to God?

What if I said I do believe in Goblins and Unicorns? What could you dispute then?

__________________

Son of JayJamJah

Okay first and foremost I am enjoy this conversation which is why I continue to have it, but lets get a few things straight. I looked up the definition of pretentious...and it does not fit.

1. Claiming or demanding a position of distinction or merit, especially when unjustified.
2. Making or marked by an extravagant outward show;

So HAH! Bite me (joking of course)

Here is what being pretentious would sound like: (and I do believe this by the by)
I know most of the people who are religious do not believe in their religion entirely because if they did they would ever lie, cheat, steal or break any of the bible (or other religious text) laws because eternal salvation, as it promises, is way to great a reward to risk.

That's pretentiousness.

Moving on...

If I believed it yes of course and i do believe God, as we know him is a concept.

"Bush knocked down the towers" etc etc. good stuff.


Perhaps you should, because you define it incorrectly, regardless I know what you mean and I think the tone of the message gets lost without the cadence and emphasis of spoken word. Much Love.



This is how I know they do not 100% believe. If you KNEW the only way to "save" people you loved was to get them to believe Gods word, you'd never rest until they believed. Does that make any sense to you yet? (he says in a authentically curious tone without the least bit on condescension)

The Big Bang theory is remarkably complicated actually. It's just not taught in detail unless you are an astronomy major like my son.

I am not a believer or non believer , I am taking the wait and see approach.

Get rid of that impression. While yes I think it's a far more logical conclusion that he does not exist, there is no proof and never will be any, so don't pigeon hole me there please.

Not essentially, exactly!


Shows how smart we both are huh?


Maybe it is but I was trying to offer a simple explanation for the start of organized religion. Yes fear plays a role in some religions but that has come with time. I am hypothesizing more about the origins of the Cluster**** we call religion.

Thanks for the links, I've seen them before, good stuff.

Here's the only place I take issue with you. Because someone can't be disproved does not suggest it might exist. Here's what we can say for certain: If there is a God or an afterlife we have zero evidence of it's existence.

I don't blame God, I blame the people.

And you don't think that's all a little ridiculous? Just saying I sure do.

Quote away just don't break into song like Ashcroft. "Let the Eagles Sore"


I beg to differ, always a good reason to debate...

Perhaps, but I still think "The search for comfort to pain we can't explain" is the lowest common denominator.

"The search for comfort to pain we can't explain" Good song title huh?

Anyway I think we agree on too much to argue much more, but lets get things straight first with all this business.

i get high sometimes

God and Unicorns and Goblins all have equal evidence for their existance.
So when people say it is 'irational to claim that God does not exist', they must use that same logic, and conclude that it is also irrational to say that Unicorns and Goblins do not exist. Do you follow me here? And if you said you did believe that goblins and unicorns exist, I wouldn't be very suprised. You do believe in God, which is no different.

MHDTV

Technically there's a 100% that everything is happening at any given point in time. Well, if you subscribe to the whole infinity concept.

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Quoted for untruth.

Finally, a signature that's chewy not chalky!

Let's agree to disagree.

boo boo

You do realise just how much of a horrible f*cking "talking point" this is don't you? For you to oversimplify the concept of gods existence like this shows just how dense you are.

Millions of people don't believe in goblins, many people don't claim to have witnessed goblins every year like they do miracles. God is a very understandable concept (Goblins and Unicorns are fictional creations, and there is a difference between creation and concept), you have to be severely stupid (oh wait, you're Bungalowbill, never mind) not to understand why people believe the existence of god makes more sense than the universe just being the result of a massive explosion that happened for no particular reason. Theres absolutely no reason to believe this is the only plain of reality that exists, since there are even solid theories to support otherwise, the infinity concept for example.

And like you said, nothing proves god dosen't exist, so what does that mean? Hmm, it means you base the idea of god not existing on faith. On faith just like everyone else, so when you tell people "haha theres no god, get over it" you are not any better than Christians who tell people they will go to hell because they don't believe. Thats right, you're no better, so get over it.

In addition to that, you really need to understand why people believe in god. And why theres reason to believe in something beyond having evidence.

For example, I have no evidence that shows that if I cross the street without looking both ways, I will be hit by a car, but it happens, so it wouldn't hurt, so I look both ways anyway. I have no evidence that says if I leave the car door unlocked while I'm gone somebody will steal it, but it happens. I have no evidence that says all my friends won't turn against me at any moment, but I trust them, and trust has the same principle as faith. Faith plays a much larger role in life than you think. So for you to say under any circumstance that people are stupid for having faith makes you a hypocrite, or at least very uninformed.

Also theres a wide range of aledged and claimed supernatual sightings and miracles that many Christians witness every year. Even if you could say its all fake and it proves nothing, it dosen't change the fact many people experience them, just like they do with UFOs and Bigfoot, and experience is a important factor in believing in something. When was the last time you heard of someone claiming to have seen a Unicorn or a Goblin? When was the last time someone has given an understandable reason that Unicorns and Goblins exist?

So please shut the f*ck up.

__________________
It's only knock n' knowall, but I like it

http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs

anticipation

Actually there is a 0% chance that you are alive, and are thinking and doing what you are at this exact moment. It's so astronomically improbable that you would turn out the way you are, its not even funny.

right-track

Before this thread spirals further into a spate of tit for tat insults and personal remarks.

Please keep it civil and avoid insults.