Sex, God, David Blane and other fun stuff... (Tool, Religious)

~~i get high sometimes~~ · 08-13-2007, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgd85

if you take the definition (or at least from what i understand as the definition) of god, then people should realize that you can neither prove nor disprove his existence. god is suppose to be something that is beyond nature and or comprehension, someone/something that is all powerful. so IF he does exist or IF he doesn't, we have no real way of knowing or proving it... so there is no point in arguing it either way. i understand that people present their views, but don't expect anyone to change their mind or believe you, just hope that if anything they get a better understanding of your reasoning or understanding.

people get the idea that we are so advanced that we can just make bold statements like "god is/isnt real". we are not so advanced to make such a claim, every bit of science that we know is just a really ****ty interpretation of what is really true. you see this as we must constantly adjust are rules and laws that govern it. all of these rules and laws have large assumptions that go along with them, and when you try and apply all the variables that come into play it becomes an impossible unsolvable equation. thus our science is like a stone age tool compared to what is true... in actuality it is much worse than that i just need a concrete example.

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."
Albert Einstein

to me the idea of these people in history like muhammad, jesus, or any of the 'prophets' are just people who had a very clear interpretation of the universe they existed in. they understood things that nobody has come close to, thats why they amazed people. they tried to express what they could to the people around them and do their best to teach them how to obtain a similar understanding.

the best way i can try and explain it is like this. pretend you could only see in black and white. how could anyone ever explain to you what color is? how could you understand it? well these 'prophets' or 'holy men' had the ability to see color, and they did their best to help color our world for us. in this same statement of respect for those people, i don't think they should be WORSHIPED, but looked up to for guidance.

like i said the problem i have with organized religion is that often the people who profess it and are the 'leaders' often begin to lose the idea of being open minded, and it can become the blind leading the blind. then people only accept what someone tells them as being right and everything else is a sham. i think it is just as big of a sham for everyone to just write off the idea of a god because most modern scientist fail to interpret it. they have failed at a million things in the past and later realized they were wrong... who is to say that cant be the case. science should be more commonly accepted as a simple interpretation to what we can observe/comprehend.

"I didn't fail the test, I just found 100 ways to do it wrong."
Benjamin Franklin

your relationship with god, if you choose to have one, should be something personal. hopefully you will try and develop it and reach out to others and or these prominent 'prophets' in history who have understood more than most as guidance to your own understanding. always remember to think for yourself, and never take anything as being completely right or wrong. we exist in a shades of gray.

just my 2 cents.

1. Lack of disproof is not evidence for proof. Science cannot disporve Santa Claus or Goblins either, should we reasonalbly say that it is irrational to claim that Goblins do not exist? By your logic, since we cannot disprove it, it is not irrational to claim that goblins exist. You get pegged into corners like that when you try to draw out that argument. Science is not based on disproof. It is impossible to disprove the existance of anything. That certainly doesn't mean that we should have people like you going around, in futile attempts to be fair, saying things like:

"people get the idea that we are so advanced that we can just make bold statements like "Unicorns are/aren't real"

Give me a break.

2. You sure do take science for granted. I suppose it is this ****ty understanding of science that we have, which allows us to create medicines which save millions of lives. I guess those medicines are just flukes? After all, we have such a ****ty understanding of science that those discoveries couldn't possibly be based on sound science. That's preposterous. Maybe the fact that, using Evolution by Natural Selection, we have been able to predict what fossils it is that we are missing, make predictions of where those fossils likely are, and then find them. Fluke? Is this coincidence? There are millions of locations on the earth that we could choose to dig, and billions of depths we could choose to dig to, which leaves about 1,000,000 x 1,000,000,000 different combinations of places to dig. But this ****ty science led us to the right spot, more than once. What are the chances of that happening? None. People want to try and take away from what science can explain in order to be fair to the religious, because for some reason it is taboo to critisize someones religious faith. I can critisize anything about you, but if I critisize the one thing that makes you who you are, then I have crossed the line. Science should stop using disclaimers in an effort to facilitate stone age ideology. You're not helping.

3. Albert Einstein was not religious. If you would bother to read anything about him, or what is refered to as 'Einsteinian Religion', you most likely wouldn't have used that quote. If you did read about Einsteinian religion, and read about that quote, and used it anyway, you would know full well that you were misleading if not outright lying to people in using it. I encourage you to just google that quote. Learn something about his stance on religion before you quote him on it.

4. If there is a God, he surely does nothing, and is therefore useless in his existance. We do not need him to explain abiogenesis or the origins of the Universe. The religious, and you, like to play God of the Gaps here. Whatever cannot be explained by science is filled in by God. "Well, what caused the origin of the Universe?! Huh? Huh? Whats that? You can't explain it? Yeah, thats because God did it!"

COP OUT.

Saying 'God did it" to fill in holes helps you learn nothing, helps you understand nothing. That statement just shows me that people are content with not knowing. Thats fine, but not for a scientist. Once the orgin of the universe is explain by science (sometimes called Physic's Origin of Species"), the religious will have to find other God shaped holes in science to throw their beliefs into, just as they had to do when Darwin presented his theory of evolution by Natural Selection.

joyboyo53 · 08-13-2007, 10:03 PM

i guess you didnt really pay attention to my post all all.

i do not use god to fill gaps, i never came close to saying that so i have no idea where that is coming from. i have a much different belief than you like to aimlessly peg on people... but i guess that comes along with being ignorant and close minded.

those medicines (your so proud of them) that we create also cause more problems, so i believe it is very safe to say we have a ****ty interpretation. take vicodin for example, this great medicine has helped cure people of their pain and in the process got millions of people helplessly addicted to it. which causes liver failure... which is painful... so i guess we arent always so smart after all.

im an engineer myself, what do you do for a living? i can tell you about how great science is. i believe in evolution and the big bang... they are huge discoveries/theories which are very likely to be true. what they didnt do is disprove god. you to sit here and think that because we exist on a planet in this solar system in this galaxy in which their are billions upon billions of that we have a clue what the **** we know... id say your crazy. there is more stars in the universe than all the sand on all the beaches on this planet and we can barely ****in land on the moon. so ya i would say that we dont really have **** for understanding, otherwise we could bend time space and warp to those other planents... i mean cmon arent we that smart?

but listen, honestly i dont care if you dont believe in god, like i said its all about your own personal thing. you can call it a crutch, you can call it a cop out, you can say whateve you like. i do however laugh at the idea that you think YOU could disprove god... hell id even put my money on unicorns over that bull****.

~~i get high sometimes~~ · 08-13-2007, 10:53 PM

I guess you aren't reading my post, and are just replying blindly.

Any scientific credentials you claim to have are completely discredited by your failure to understand the fundamental concept that lack of disproof is not evidence of proof. Quit touting that I am claiming I can disprove God. This is the entire crux of your post and anyone with two eyes and a brain between then could read what I said multiple times. We cannot disprove God, we also cannot disprove Unicorns or Goblins. So phonies like you coming in and making statements like:

"people get the idea that we are so advanced that we can just make bold statements like "god is/isn't real"

Don't be so ridiculous. Are you willing to come out and say that arguing over the existance of Trolls is futile because we cannot disprove them? If you are not willing to say that, then you cannot even get through the course of one argument without contradicting your own logic. That is a severe flaw in your argument. Disproving God means nothing. I cannot disprove God. I cannot disprove the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the Invisible Pink Unicorn either, and it is glaringly obvious that all three do not exist. Just because it is more acceptable to believe that one of those exists over the other two, does not change the fact that all three are equally implausable.

So please, don't attribute things which I have never once claimed to me.
More than anything it makes you look foolish. If you can show me a single instance where I claimed I could disprove God, then show it to me.

joyboyo53 · 08-13-2007, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by i get high sometimes

So please, don't attribute things which I have never once claimed to me.
More than anything it makes you look foolish.

this is after you tell me that i use god to fill gaps, when in no way shape or form have i ever done such a thing. seems a bit hipocritical.

besides you telling me im foolish for doing something you in fact yourself did first....

here is what i said previously "so IF he does exist or IF he doesn't, we have no real way of knowing or proving it... so there is no point in arguing it either way"

here is what you said "lack of disproof is not evidence of proof"

people like you just want something to argue about...

Alexander the Grape · 08-14-2007, 12:03 AM

too many long posts.

not discharging your gun regularly increases the chance of testicular cancer. look it up.

Son of JayJamJah · 08-14-2007, 12:23 AM

A lesson to those who have not learned it.

While living with a girl friend in a one bedroom apartment in the 1970's I was ordered to stop servicing myself, I did so despite much protest for four weeks until one night when my body took care of it for me. It's natural folks, if you don't do it, your subconscious will. A humorous sidebar, my knack for sleeping in the nude and her restlessness resulted in a "sticky" wake-up which I strongly feel she deserved.

Laces Out Dan! · 08-14-2007, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayJamJah

A lesson to those who have not learned it.

While living with a girl friend in a one bedroom apartment in the 1970's I was ordered to stop servicing myself, I did so despite much protest for four weeks until one night when my body took care of it for me. It's natural folks, if you don't do it, your subconscious will. A humorous sidebar, my knack for sleeping in the nude and her restlessness resulted in a "sticky" wake-up which I strongly feel she deserved.

Hahahahahahahah

DearJenny · 08-14-2007, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by i get high sometimes

Telling a cancer patient that they do not have cancer and can look forward to the rest of their lives, would certainly comfort an otherwise scared person, this does not however, change the fact that they will die of cancer.

Well where would be the sense in telling them they do not have cancer? That has NO relavence. But this "cancer patient" could still learn the word of God and be promised that at the end they would reach a place with no pain or suffering. And this would comfort them.

Quote:

You've spent your life dedicated to Yaweh, when it turns out that Allah is the one true God.

I am more than willing to take that chance.

Quote:

But, during my life I am not restrained to the laws of some ancient book, and I am not guilt ridden and subject to the admonishment of pious men. I feel that the religious waste their lives for something so trivial and ridiculous, I cannot even fathom the amount disconnect in ones brain that would lead them to devote themselves to God. Let alone give their life for him. That is plain silly, especially since, after death, it will be painstakingly obvious to you that you believed in a myth your whole life. Or, considering your consciouness will die with your body, you won't be aware of the waste that your life was after all.

Excuse me, there is NOTHING disconnected in my brain. I am a bright young woman with a VERY promising future, and I still give my heart and soul, mind and body, into a purpose so great that I cannot fathom why anyone could be atheist. I've been through crisis. There were a few years in which I lost sight. Got into drugs, heavy drinking, dabbled in some sexual encounters, even became suicidal with my actions. And they were the worst years of my life(although they WERE the most fun I've ever had

). But I lost sight of the end of the road. I was too interested in being a typical teenager that I did not notice the fork in the road and I took the wrong route. Now that I've returned to religion I am happy again. And I still drink, although I've quit experimenting in drugs and prematial sex is limited to one person(my fiance). And I am not guilt ridden the slightest bit because I know that I am forgiven.

Quote:

"Who knows?! Days could mean hundreds of millions of years"

It has been discussed that a day could mean something more. Have you ever told someone "It'll only take a minute" and it takes fifteen minutes? It is like that. It even describes dinosaurs in the bible.

Quote:

Atheists cannot have good hearts and good conscienceness?

Never said that atheists cannot be good people.

MHDTV · 08-14-2007, 12:43 AM

Maybe God really intended us to party our lives away...

DearJenny · 08-14-2007, 12:44 AM

He DID turn that water into wine. Rofl.

08-14-2007, 12:03 AM	#65 (permalink)
Alexander the Grape Un****withable Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wyoming Posts: 196	too many long posts. not discharging your gun regularly increases the chance of testicular cancer. look it up. __________________ I'm back like JC lol.

08-14-2007, 12:44 AM	#70 (permalink)
DearJenny Raptor Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 1,321	He DID turn that water into wine. Rofl. __________________ So here's to living life miserable. And here's to all the lonely stories that I've told. Maybe drinking wine will validate my sorrow. Every man needs a muse and mine could be the bottle.

08-13-2007, 10:03 PM	#62 (permalink)
joyboyo53 down the rabbit hole Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: the mountain called monkey Posts: 764	i guess you didnt really pay attention to my post all all. i do not use god to fill gaps, i never came close to saying that so i have no idea where that is coming from. i have a much different belief than you like to aimlessly peg on people... but i guess that comes along with being ignorant and close minded. those medicines (your so proud of them) that we create also cause more problems, so i believe it is very safe to say we have a **ty interpretation. take vicodin for example, this great medicine has helped cure people of their pain and in the process got millions of people helplessly addicted to it. which causes liver failure... which is painful... so i guess we arent always so smart after all. im an engineer myself, what do you do for a living? i can tell you about how great science is. i believe in evolution and the big bang... they are huge discoveries/theories which are very likely to be true. what they didnt do is disprove god. you to sit here and think that because we exist on a planet in this solar system in this galaxy in which their are billions upon billions of that we have a clue what the we know... id say your crazy. there is more stars in the universe than all the sand on all the beaches on this planet and we can barely in land on the moon. so ya i would say that we dont really have for understanding, otherwise we could bend time space and warp to those other planents... i mean cmon arent we that smart? but listen, honestly i dont care if you dont believe in god, like i said its all about your own personal thing. you can call it a crutch, you can call it a cop out, you can say whateve you like. i do however laugh at the idea that you think YOU could disprove god... hell id even put my money on unicorns over that bull**.

08-13-2007, 10:53 PM	#63 (permalink)
~~i get high sometimes~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 240	I guess you aren't reading my post, and are just replying blindly. Any scientific credentials you claim to have are completely discredited by your failure to understand the fundamental concept that lack of disproof is not evidence of proof. Quit touting that I am claiming I can disprove God. This is the entire crux of your post and anyone with two eyes and a brain between then could read what I said multiple times. We cannot disprove God, we also cannot disprove Unicorns or Goblins. So phonies like you coming in and making statements like: "people get the idea that we are so advanced that we can just make bold statements like "god is/isn't real" Don't be so ridiculous. Are you willing to come out and say that arguing over the existance of Trolls is futile because we cannot disprove them? If you are not willing to say that, then you cannot even get through the course of one argument without contradicting your own logic. That is a severe flaw in your argument. Disproving God means nothing. I cannot disprove God. I cannot disprove the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the Invisible Pink Unicorn either, and it is glaringly obvious that all three do not exist. Just because it is more acceptable to believe that one of those exists over the other two, does not change the fact that all three are equally implausable. So please, don't attribute things which I have never once claimed to me. More than anything it makes you look foolish. If you can show me a single instance where I claimed I could disprove God, then show it to me.

08-14-2007, 12:23 AM	#66 (permalink)
Son of JayJamJah Occams Razor Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: End of the Earth Posts: 2,472	A lesson to those who have not learned it. While living with a girl friend in a one bedroom apartment in the 1970's I was ordered to stop servicing myself, I did so despite much protest for four weeks until one night when my body took care of it for me. It's natural folks, if you don't do it, your subconscious will. A humorous sidebar, my knack for sleeping in the nude and her restlessness resulted in a "sticky" wake-up which I strongly feel she deserved.