Inuzuka Skysword

1. Your post is unclear because it isn't very specific as to what I should and shouldn't do.

2. Give me you references to your information, which they are most likely found in Leviticus I would believe.

3. If I didn't care about everything the Bible says I would neither claim to be Christian, nor be here defending it. I sure as heck care about the Bible says. After all I would be killed for it.

Faith without works is dead. End of discussion.

You know what is so funny. I am told Christians are the most narrow minded people and then I see someone do this, which leads me to believe something was lost in the translation. Honestly, if you judge a religion by the people who follow it then you have a serious problem.

Care to explain why you call it fantasy. You can't prove it wrong and you can't prove it right so I don't see how it can be called fantasy.

Maybe for the first five minutes, but you won't have contact with anyone for the rest of eternity so that would suck.
HI I LIKE TO MAKE FUN OF CHRISTIANS BECAUSE IT MAKES ME FEEL LIKE I AM 1337 AND COOL. I MEAN YOU BARELY HAVE TO PRESENT ANY PROOF TO MAKE FUN OF THEM BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY US AND BARELY ANY OF THEM THAT IT IS SO EASY.

KBYE.

Explain the bold.

Reference please.

Son of JayJamJah

@Inuzuka Skysword

It's all right to believe, I am just saying the entire notion is preposterous to me. It is fantasy however by definition and I wonder why anyone who truly believed would ever be concerned with what anyone else thought or did.

Don't deny non-believers or anti-theists the right to call it fantasy as it fits the definition perfectly. Like Dragons, Unicorns and Leprechauns there is not a shred of evidence that God exists. And of course in the case of all four the absence of disproof is not at all evidence of proof.

I'd also ask you to consider how arrogant religion is to those who choose not to partake. The thought that you made the right choice out of the tens of thousands of religions that have existed since time began, beyond arrogant is it not?

Believe if you want to believe, many people find solace in spirituality or faith, I find it in the faces of the people I love.

i get high sometimes

You will lose this argument. That isn't arrogance speaking, just experience.

The two specific laws I alluded to are, in fact from Leviticus Ch. 20, Verses 9-21.
Those are but a few of the Bibles glorious laws, however, and only a minute fraction of the complete dispicability of Yaweh. Any book which condones the murder of those who do work on Saturday (Sunday) ex. Exodus 31:15, then gives an example of this murder ex. Numbers 15:32-36, committed by one of Christianity and Judaism's most revered figures (Moses), is not a book upon which I would base my moral code. In fact, you would have to be quite near psychotic to take these as morals.

Now, maybe you are one of those Christians who immediately throws up the excuse that Jesus Christ sacrificing himself on the cross excludes you from having to follow these "Old Testament Laws". Now, if you would like to go that route for your rebuttall, I would be glad to oblige you. I'll will just let you know, ahead of time, that argument will not stand up to the Bible. The very book which you derive your beliefs from, will very quickly kill that argument. Use it if you wish however.

Giving your life for a book equatable to Lord of the Rings is not a smart move.


I'm very happy that most Christians completely ignore their dispicable holy book.
The world would be chaos if Christians were bothered enough to read the word of God and take his words at face value.

Have I judged the religion by its adherants at all yet? Insofar as I can remember, the only thing which I have used to judge Christianity, is the Bible. Am I not allowed to judge the religion by its Holy Book?


Why do I call it fantasy?
How can you not see that it IS fantasy? Magic, mysticism, miracles, these are elements of fantasy, not fact.

"You can't prove it wrong or right"

And the winner for Worst Point of All Time is this.

Do you know what else science CAN'T prove wrong? Goblins, Unicorns (which the Bible mentions by the way), Trolls, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the Celestial Teapot, Orcs, Bigfoot, The Invisible Pink Unicorn, Hobbits, Witches, Wizards, Elves, Fairies, Centaurs, Zeus, Apollo, Athena, just add Yaweh to that large list. Science cannot DISPROVE the existance of anything. Because these things cannot be disproven by science, you would be willing to assume they do exist? If that isn't flawed logic then I don't know what is.

Good thing no one will ever have to find out eh? Sad as it may be, Hitler, Pol Pot, you and I, will all encounter the exact same after-life.

Well, when you talk about how God is your savior, and we must bow down before our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, I can only thing of ancient Romans bowing before Jupiter, or the Norse worshipping Odin and Thor. Your religion is no different. No facet of it makes it more believable, it does not have an ounce more proof in favor of it than do any other religions which have ever existed.

Voice_of_the_Soul12,13,01

Good god, dudes. Who cares about what he believes in? If he believes God exists, let him. Why not just go up to some 4 year old and tell them Santa isn't real?

Faith is based on believing, not seeing or knowing. It can't be disputed by either side. You can't argue for it or against it because it's all opinion. It's like the whole "True Metal vs. False Metal" argument.

__________________
I don't mean to dwell
But I can't help myself
When I feel the vibe
And taste a memory
Of a time in life
When years seemed to stand still

DearJenny

So why exactly are you living your life. I cannot imagine a life in which there were no glorious end. Without Him my life, any life is meaningless because you're living it for the wrong reasons. Maybe you want to be the head of a major company, or the president, or the richest person in the whole world. Even if you get to that position, where are you at the end? YOU HAVE NOTHING. And God forbid that you're wrong and you end up in hell? I still aspire for big things, I'm not going to be stepped on or not work towards things because I believe that if I was meant for something that it'll just come to me. It is not a blind faith either(proof). The way I look at it, if you're going to live, at least live towards something, live FOR Someone and at the end you will be awarded greatly. Even if you are wrong, you were still a good person and will pass with a good conscience and good heart.

__________________

anticipation

I admire your fervor and your knowledge on this subject, but the fact of the matter is that nothing you can say can shake my faith. I am a Roman Catholic, and despite what many may think, most of us are hardworking, respectable people. To any devout member of any organized religion, very little can be said that would cause them to stop believing, because only those people with doubts in their hearts and weak minds can be swayed. I do not see the Bible as law, it is merely a set of stories used to help influence you to do the right things. If others may see it as law, then that is fine with me. So, even if you brought me scientific proof that God didn't exist that was indisputible, I would still not stop believing in Him.


It also strikes me as odd, how you continually try to discredit an entire relgion, and then claim that the religion is arrogant. Although there are people who try to force their beliefs on others, I don't. So, in effect, everytime you tell me God isn't real and insult me for my faith, it's the same as me telling you you're going to Hell.

joyboyo53

if you take the definition (or at least from what i understand as the definition) of god, then people should realize that you can neither prove nor disprove his existence. god is suppose to be something that is beyond nature and or comprehension, someone/something that is all powerful. so IF he does exist or IF he doesn't, we have no real way of knowing or proving it... so there is no point in arguing it either way. i understand that people present their views, but don't expect anyone to change their mind or believe you, just hope that if anything they get a better understanding of your reasoning or understanding.

people get the idea that we are so advanced that we can just make bold statements like "god is/isnt real". we are not so advanced to make such a claim, every bit of science that we know is just a really ****ty interpretation of what is really true. you see this as we must constantly adjust are rules and laws that govern it. all of these rules and laws have large assumptions that go along with them, and when you try and apply all the variables that come into play it becomes an impossible unsolvable equation. thus our science is like a stone age tool compared to what is true... in actuality it is much worse than that i just need a concrete example.

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."
Albert Einstein

to me the idea of these people in history like muhammad, jesus, or any of the 'prophets' are just people who had a very clear interpretation of the universe they existed in. they understood things that nobody has come close to, thats why they amazed people. they tried to express what they could to the people around them and do their best to teach them how to obtain a similar understanding.

the best way i can try and explain it is like this. pretend you could only see in black and white. how could anyone ever explain to you what color is? how could you understand it? well these 'prophets' or 'holy men' had the ability to see color, and they did their best to help color our world for us. in this same statement of respect for those people, i don't think they should be WORSHIPED, but looked up to for guidance.

like i said the problem i have with organized religion is that often the people who profess it and are the 'leaders' often begin to lose the idea of being open minded, and it can become the blind leading the blind. then people only accept what someone tells them as being right and everything else is a sham. i think it is just as big of a sham for everyone to just write off the idea of a god because most modern scientist fail to interpret it. they have failed at a million things in the past and later realized they were wrong... who is to say that cant be the case. science should be more commonly accepted as a simple interpretation to what we can observe/comprehend.

"I didn't fail the test, I just found 100 ways to do it wrong."
Benjamin Franklin

your relationship with god, if you choose to have one, should be something personal. hopefully you will try and develop it and reach out to others and or these prominent 'prophets' in history who have understood more than most as guidance to your own understanding. always remember to think for yourself, and never take anything as being completely right or wrong. we exist in a shades of gray.

just my 2 cents.

Son of JayJamJah

I have no interest in discrediting any religion at all, just distancing myself from it. I was raised Catholic and the church community was full of wonderful people who did extraordinary things in the name in God. So again I hold no ill will nor do I wish to convert or change anyones personal faith.

The crux of my argument if I were to make one would be that
a) To the lesser evolved and more persecuted it is a rallying point for violence (I'll get to that briefly)
b)Most Christians do not 100% believe in God. I make this conclusion with great certainty based on several factors. Anyone who has ever stolen or cheated on the spouse for example could not believe in God as that is forbidden and the reward, Eternal Bliss, is far to great for any right minded person to chance it if they truly believed without doubt. An overwhelming percentage of prison inmates describe themselves as deeply religious. This is a good example for how religion started.

All living things die, and humans are the only living things on earth aware of that. That will blow your mind when you first come to grips with it as a species. You feel like you need answers, basic human instinct, but they are of course beyond your comprehension so you make them up.

Now you know there is some sort of "fiction" element to religion as the sheer variety of them causes constant contradiction. Really what you have is different cultures trying to convey values and morals to protect their children, another basic human instinct. What you end up is at first crude and causes a lot of God-envy and waring in the name of religion, eventually what you seem to get to is what we have today, (With the exception of Islamo-fascists) refined peaceful religions that preach loving your fellow man and being selfless.

I am an Atheist, but I have two children and a wife who are Christians. I have always told my children when they asked why they should learn about Jesus Christ and God when I did not believe in him. that story of Christ, is even if completely fictional is still a wonderful lesson on how to lead your life. They are married now and will likely raise their children as Christians as well.

I would argue that the fact that I don't believe there is an afterlife has made me value each day more because I believe my time is here is so small in the grand scheme of things and life is such a precious an amazing gift that I owe it to myself and the people I love to make the best of it.

I guess I'm not even the kind of person who says "There is no God" to mean that I know there is not, just to remind people who use their God as a reference that it is meaningless because I don't believe in any particular God in any religion.

By the by jgd I don't disagree with your logic at all, I would however argue that we might conclude based on how many forms or religion and mythology have been disproved or become archaic that those of this century might too reach and fall the same fate given time to run their course.

i get high sometimes

So many comments to debate here. I'll edit them in as I reply to them.

This is, once again, terribly flawed logic. There are a few things here.

1. You say that you could not imagine a life in which there were no glorious end. In this you very clearly lay the claim that your religion comforts you. That's fine, but because something comforts you, or makes you a better person, in no way makes it true. Telling a cancer patient that they do not have cancer and can look forward to the rest of their lives, would certainly comfort an otherwise scared person, this does not however, change the fact that they will die of cancer. Next, suppose atheism made you the worst person in the world. All atheists are misogynistic, racist, megalomaniacle maniacs (a series of discriptions which describe your God rather well, ironically). All of these horrible characteristics of atheism would not change the fact that God does not exist. Realizing there is no god could turn you into a psychotic killer, and the fact that God does not exist would not be shaken. So, comfort =/= truth. This should be obvious. And 'making you a good person' =/= truth.

2. "And God forbid that you're wrong and end up in hell"

What a nieve thing to say. Suppose that you're wrong. You've spent your life dedicated to Yaweh, when it turns out that Allah is the one true God.
By your logic, you may as well become a Muslim, because if that whole Christianity thing doesn't work out in the end, you're gonna be screwed. God forbid you're wrong...

Can't you see why that reasoning is completely wrong? There are thousands of religions, what are the chances that YOURS is right? Pascals Wager was disproved the same day he developed it, you certainly don't do it any justice.

3. "Even if you get in that position, what are you in the end? YOU HAVE NOTHING"

Again, just because your religion brings comfort to you, does not make it true. This builds upon both of the replies I've already given. You've spent your life devoted to Yaweh, and Allah is the true God. Now, not only do you have nothing, but you are burning to death in the pits of hell for eternity. Take up Islam, it is the only way, by your logic, to save yourself.

Also, I resent the statement that atheists have nothing. Sure, upon death we will all have nothing, just like we were nothing before birth. But, during my life I am not restrained to the laws of some ancient book, and I am not guilt ridden and subject to the admonishment of pious men. I feel that the religious waste their lives for something so trivial and ridiculous, I cannot even fathom the amount disconnect in ones brain that would lead them to devote themselves to God. Let alone give their life for him. That is plain silly, especially since, after death, it will be painstakingly obvious to you that you believed in a myth your whole life. Or, considering your consciouness will die with your body, you won't be aware of the waste that your life was after all.

4. Your website is a joke. The first sentece lies to you. Right off the bat these religious folk have lied. Can they not prove their point without lying? There must be something wrong with your case when you have to lie to prove it.

"There is no scientific fact that discredits the Bible"

Hello? Seven days of creation, humans on the 6th day. The earth has been in existance for 4+ Billion years, humans have been around for about 2 million years. You can do the subtraction there and realize that it equates to a little more than 6 days of difference. Of course though, Christians have to put all kind of spin on their Bible to dispute anything.

"Who knows?! Days could mean hundreds of millions of years"

He is the creator of all things in your mind right? If that is what he meant, don't you think that he, as God, could at least make it clear? Any 10 year old can interpret those verses in Genesis and take out of it that God created the world in 6 days. If God really meant to say that he created the Earth and the things which populate it over the course of 3+ billion years, I believe, that if he truly is the creator of all things, he would be able to articulate his point better. Or maybe a better scientific disproof of Bible stories would be the notion that humans were created in their present state. Which we know for a fact to be false. Perhaps the story of the man who spent two weeks inside a whale, a physically impossible thing to do, is better disproof? Again, it takes all sorts of spin and off-the-wall interpretations for you to make sense of your Bible, to make it logical.

5. "At least you will pass with a good consciousness and a good heart"

Atheists cannot have good hearts and good conscienceness? The fact that some of the greatest philanthropists have been atheists and some of the biggest crooks and tyrants have been clergymen or religious men says a good deal on that if you ask me. Secondly, I really doubt that Allah is going to care how greatly you devoted your life to being a heretic in the eyes of his religion, you're still spending eternity in hell.

i get high sometimes

This I also disagree with immensly, and believe your logic is quite off. How does it take a weak mind to be swayed AWAY from religion, when nealry 70% of the worlds population, and 98% of this country claim to adhere to some faith? Religion is genetic. You are a Roman Catholic because your parents are very likely Roman Catholic. If you were born in India you would be a Hindu, and had you the misfortune of being born in Saudi Arabia you would likely be a Muslim. Indoctrination accounts for (obviously there are no statistics to back this up, because no religious person will seriously consider the possibility that the only reason they are religious IS indoctrination) probably 80% of religious faith on the planet. In many countries, swaying away from some faith can get you killed. Yet it takes a weak mind to sway from a religion which is quite obviously charlatan? Like I said, I disagree.

Also, your last sentence in the first paragraph is not something to be proud of.
What we call those words strung together in that way, is ignorance. Yes, the religious call it faith, but any rational person calls it ignorance. You will never hear a scientist say that "Even if undisputable scientific proof was laid before me which contradicted Natural Selection, I would continue to believe in Darwinian evolution"

That scientist would be laughed out of every university in the world. Obviously, it is different with the religious. You would likely be commended for that exceptionally ignorant comment. Anyway, onto your next paragraph.

Believing that the creator of the entire universe wishes to have a person and intimate relationship with YOU, and only others who adhere to the same belief system as your, is arrogant. I know that I am part of a much larger cycle of life on this planet, which is a minute part of this solar system which is a blip in this galaxy, which is a spec of dust on the infinite black that is this universe. That is the Milky Way compared with this Universe, imagine yourself compared to it. Believing that, of all the planets in all the solar systems in all the galaxies (of which there are billions, hence trillions of planets) in the entire universe, THIS is the only one which God visisted and decided to sprinkle his divine light on, is exceedingly arrogant. Also exceedingly ignorant.