Literal Interpretation of the Bible. (member, quote, history, Whip)

MHDTV · 07-04-2007, 08:13 PM

In response to comments on the Bible in the Iraq War Thread, I have recieved permission from Crowquill to start a thread on the religion-oriented comments made there. For the record, I'm a heavily reformed Jew who doesn't really believe in "God" as an all-powerful being(My belief's are not the topic of the thread by the way). On to the topic at hand.

The Bible is not God's word. That is a fact. Why? Because it has been translated, and changed for political purposes so many times that it has very little to do with what God(Assuming it exists and that it wrote the Bible) originally intended it to be. Discuss, and keep it friendly or Crow will shut the thread down.

Inuzuka Skysword · 07-04-2007, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MHDTV

The Bible is not God's word. That is a fact. Why? Because it has been translated, and changed for political purposes so many times that it has very little to do with what God(Assuming it exists and that it wrote the Bible) originally intended it to be. Discuss, and keep it friendly or Crow will shut the thread down.

How is it a fact? We have no evidence that God came down and rejected the Bible, therefore it is not a fact.

Second of all this may not amount much in a debate, but I must mention it. God has been very active in my life, and I am not talking about where I pray for something to happen and it comes to be real. I am talking about the fact that when I worship, I feel I aura that is almost unreal. Now you can make the argument, "Well it could just be your mind playing games with you," but that is where my personal faith comes in because me having that experience, alone, makes the decision up to me whether I think it is real or not.

Now you may be saying, "Well what does this have to do with a debate on the Bible being real?" Well this is how I will explain it. The New Testament has shown itself to me and what I mean is that when I was at a retreat with my youth group they did sort of a skit thing. Now after my youth pastor was done giving his sermon (whatever you want to call it) the skit began and it ended with a big cross above us. Now when that happened I felt like I was way back watching him die and it felt so real that I broke down on my knees and began to cry. Now you can call me a wimp or whatever, but the experience I had that night felt too real to be fake. I mean since most of you don't care much about Jesus you may not understand how I felt, but to get a glimpse you can just picture the person you love most in your life, hanging up there. It was more painful then anything I have ever watched. That is why I despise people making those movies like The Passion because it was too fake. Pretty much his insides were exposed do to the severe whipping from the "Cat of nine tails" or whatever those things were. I got a bit carried away there so I am going to stop.

So like I said, it won't do much for anyone else except me because it was a personal experience, but I felt that I should mention where I divulged my opinion from.

MHDTV · 07-04-2007, 09:58 PM

God didn't come down and reject anything else, did he?

Inuzuka Skysword · 07-04-2007, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MHDTV

God didn't come down and reject anything else, did he?

Through what I believe to be his word he has rejected many things. Christianity can be a very personal religion in some areas and faith is one of them. After all if God was backed up with 100% fact and no faith then how would we truly love him when our human nature will basically make us take the easy way out by saying we love him just so we can avoid hell, which in the end we wouldn't because we wouldn't be loving him with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength.

MHDTV · 07-04-2007, 10:12 PM

Hell was made up by the Catholic Church. Anyway, you're essentially saying you can't prove you're point. To me God is like String Theory. We can't prove he exists and we can't prove he doesn't.

Inuzuka Skysword · 07-04-2007, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MHDTV

Hell was made up by the Catholic Church. Anyway, you're essentially saying you can't prove you're point. To me God is like String Theory. We can't prove he exists and we can't prove he doesn't.

And the Bible says that like I stated above. It would not be true faith if we had a definite reason he was real.

OOT: Man this conversation is reminding me of the Matrix and its epic allegoricalness.

anticipation · 07-05-2007, 01:02 PM

The bible is based off the teachings and parables preached by Jesus Christ. No one is suggesting that it is God's word, mainly due to the fact that almost all of it is up to an individual's interperetation. The stories and fables accounted in the Bible are moral messages intended to influence people to live a good life. What does it matter that God doesn't come down and tell you these things?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MHDTV

Hell was made up by the Catholic Church

and not only is this completely incorrect, it has little to do with the matter at hand. Hell is not a creation of the Catholic Church, the idea has existed for hundreds of years before Catholicism was even conceived. You're a Jew, yet you know nothing of the portrayal of "Gehenna" as a final resting place for the wicked? Previous terms for what is comomonly known today as "hell" are the Greek Hades, Buddhist Naraka, and the Islamic Jahannam. Now, are you going to tell me that all of those religions based their ideas of Hell off of the Catholic Church?

Inuzuka Skysword · 07-05-2007, 11:21 AM

Quote:

1 " 'At that time, declares the LORD, the bones of the kings and officials of Judah, the bones of the priests and prophets, and the bones of the people of Jerusalem will be removed from their graves. 2 They will be exposed to the sun and the moon and all the stars of the heavens, which they have loved and served and which they have followed and consulted and worshiped. They will not be gathered up or buried, but will be like refuse lying on the ground. 3 Wherever I banish them, all the survivors of this evil nation will prefer death to life, declares the LORD Almighty.'
Sin and Punishment
4 "Say to them, 'This is what the LORD says:
" 'When men fall down, do they not get up?
When a man turns away, does he not return?

5 Why then have these people turned away?
Why does Jerusalem always turn away?
They cling to deceit;
they refuse to return.

6 I have listened attentively,
but they do not say what is right.
No one repents of his wickedness,
saying, "What have I done?"
Each pursues his own course
like a horse charging into battle.

7 Even the stork in the sky
knows her appointed seasons,
and the dove, the swift and the thrush
observe the time of their migration.
But my people do not know
the requirements of the LORD.

8 " 'How can you say, "We are wise,
for we have the law of the LORD,"
when actually the lying pen of the scribes
has handled it falsely?

9 The wise will be put to shame;
they will be dismayed and trapped.
Since they have rejected the word of the LORD,
what kind of wisdom do they have?

10 Therefore I will give their wives to other men
and their fields to new owners.
From the least to the greatest,
all are greedy for gain;
prophets and priests alike,
all practice deceit.

11 They dress the wound of my people
as though it were not serious.
"Peace, peace," they say,
when there is no peace.

12 Are they ashamed of their loathsome conduct?
No, they have no shame at all;
they do not even know how to blush.
So they will fall among the fallen;
they will be brought down when they are punished,
says the LORD.

13 " 'I will take away their harvest,
declares the LORD.
There will be no grapes on the vine.
There will be no figs on the tree,
and their leaves will wither.
What I have given them
will be taken from them. [a] ' "

14 "Why are we sitting here?
Gather together!
Let us flee to the fortified cities
and perish there!
For the LORD our God has doomed us to perish
and given us poisoned water to drink,
because we have sinned against him.

15 We hoped for peace
but no good has come,
for a time of healing
but there was only terror.

16 The snorting of the enemy's horses
is heard from Dan;
at the neighing of their stallions
the whole land trembles.
They have come to devour
the land and everything in it,
the city and all who live there."

17 "See, I will send venomous snakes among you,
vipers that cannot be charmed,
and they will bite you,"
declares the LORD.

18 O my Comforter [b] in sorrow,
my heart is faint within me.

19 Listen to the cry of my people
from a land far away:
"Is the LORD not in Zion?
Is her King no longer there?"
"Why have they provoked me to anger with their images,
with their worthless foreign idols?"

20 "The harvest is past,
the summer has ended,
and we are not saved."

21 Since my people are crushed, I am crushed;
I mourn, and horror grips me.

22 Is there no balm in Gilead?
Is there no physician there?
Why then is there no healing
for the wound of my people?

To understand this you may need a bit of background information. At the time the kingdoms of Judah and Israel were going through many "dynasty's" of kings who weren't following the Lord. That is what Jeremiah was criticizing. That was pretty much the dark ages of Israel.

Quote:

Luke felt the need to write another gospel even though "many writers have undertaken to draw up an account of these events" (Luke 1:1). Luke obviously felt that Mark's gospel was filled with errors and edited it freely. Not even Mark's account of the words of the dying Christ was left unaltered.

Luke made a gospel from his perspective. Just because he didn't like the way Mark wrote it and the things Mark included, it still doesn't mean he didn't approve of it. Each gospel is each man's perspective with what happened. Put them all together and you get the real story.

Quote:

* How the author of Chronicles I & II white-washed earlier historical accounts of Saul, David, and Solomon.
* How the book of Ruth was written to challenge the growing racism of religious reformers of its time.
* How every apocalyptic book of the Bible struggled to reinterpret some earlier failed Bible prophecy.
* The war of "Wisdom" between religious teachings, pagan proverbs, and practical advice.
* The centuries long battle in the Bible between prophets and the Law of Moses, and even between the prophets and prophecy itself.
* How first and second century Christians interpreted the Hebrew Bible in a new way, to change it into a book that had "really" been written about Jesus.
* Jesus of Nazareth's philosophical conflicts with Jesus the son of Sirach.
* The battle between James and Paul--and their followers--for control of first-century Christianity.

And here he goes again rambling without facts. Here is advice, don't mention it and if you aren't going to back it up.

Quote:

As Helms concludes, "Before the sacred authors were declared sacred, they were fair game for attack or revision. Not without reason did John the Relevator threaten with "plagues' anyone who 'adds to' or 'takes away from the words of' his book (Rev. 22:18-19), for such was all too often the fate of the 'little books' that eventually became our Bible."

And how can you make that assumption. There are like 1,000,000 reasons he could have said that and you chose to pick one and think it is correct. Wow, and you didn't even tell us why.

joyboyo53 · 07-05-2007, 11:51 AM

/emote vomits all over this thread

this seems less like a discussion topic and more like a problem waiting to happen. its just my opinion but when both sides of an arguement are closeminded, doesnt it make sense to only talk about it with people who agree with you? otherwise its just gonna end up a pointless drivel of wasted breath and burnt bridges.

Pilzkopf · 07-05-2007, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgd85

/emote vomits all over this thread

this seems less like a discussion topic and more like a problem waiting to happen. its just my opinion but when both sides of an arguement are closeminded, doesnt it make sense to only talk about it with people who agree with you? otherwise its just gonna end up a pointless drivel of wasted breath and burnt bridges.

I agree, especially since I was accused of writing that summary and choosing those parts. All I did was report what someone else had written. Now, I am curious to read that book and see what else it has to say.

07-04-2007, 08:13 PM	#1 (permalink)
MHDTV Music Addict Join Date: May 2007 Location: Berkeley, California Posts: 697	Literal Interpretation of the Bible. In response to comments on the Bible in the Iraq War Thread, I have recieved permission from Crowquill to start a thread on the religion-oriented comments made there. For the record, I'm a heavily reformed Jew who doesn't really believe in "God" as an all-powerful being(My belief's are not the topic of the thread by the way). On to the topic at hand. The Bible is not God's word. That is a fact. Why? Because it has been translated, and changed for political purposes so many times that it has very little to do with what God(Assuming it exists and that it wrote the Bible) originally intended it to be. Discuss, and keep it friendly or Crow will shut the thread down.

07-04-2007, 09:58 PM	#3 (permalink)
MHDTV Music Addict Join Date: May 2007 Location: Berkeley, California Posts: 697	God didn't come down and reject anything else, did he?

07-04-2007, 10:12 PM	#5 (permalink)
MHDTV Music Addict Join Date: May 2007 Location: Berkeley, California Posts: 697	Hell was made up by the Catholic Church. Anyway, you're essentially saying you can't prove you're point. To me God is like String Theory. We can't prove he exists and we can't prove he doesn't.

07-05-2007, 11:51 AM	#9 (permalink)
joyboyo53 down the rabbit hole Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: the mountain called monkey Posts: 764	/emote vomits all over this thread this seems less like a discussion topic and more like a problem waiting to happen. its just my opinion but when both sides of an arguement are closeminded, doesnt it make sense to only talk about it with people who agree with you? otherwise its just gonna end up a pointless drivel of wasted breath and burnt bridges.