Abortion

midnight rain · 12-10-2012, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermione

To some people, it's a clump of cells. To others, it's a human being. However, it should never take precedent over a grown woman. That's what people seem to be missing lately, what with the whole Savita thing in Ireland

I think that if it's your body you're carrying it with, then you define what it is to you: parasite or child.

I think it's a parasite personally, so it should be up to the woman either way. It doesn't meet the qualifications of a living human.

The Batlord · 12-10-2012, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

The implication is that if it's human, it should be entitled to human rights and no other man or woman should have a say in it. If it's not, then it's up to the woman to decide if she wants to keep it. Thats my opinion at least.

We don't give something rights for being human (or at least it doesn't necessarily make sense to). We give something rights based on it's status as a person, which is distinct from being human. Some scientists, for instance, argue that dolphins and chimpanzees deserve to have at least some rights granted to a "person". Of course, defining what is or is not a person is difficult and sort of impossible to nail down perfectly. A zygote or an embryo or a sperm cell or an egg, clearly have no properties associated with personhood. They don't even have any sort of consciousness, for one.

midnight rain · 12-10-2012, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

We don't give something rights for being human (or at least it doesn't necessarily make sense to). We give something rights based on it's status as a person, which is distinct from being human. Some scientists, for instance, argue that dolphins and chimpanzees deserve to have at least some rights granted to a "person". Of course, defining what is or is not a person is difficult and sort of impossible to nail down perfectly. A zygote or an embryo or a sperm cell or an egg, clearly have no properties associated with personhood. They don't even have any sort of consciousness, for one.

Status? How so? If you're referring to third world countries or something, I think it would be much easier to keep this discussion focused on the United States, where the "human rights", like right to live, are pretty much universal regardless of status.

The Batlord · 12-10-2012, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

Status? How so? If you're referring to third world countries or something, I think it would be much easier to keep this discussion focused on the United States, where the "human rights", like right to live, are pretty much universal regardless of status.

I don't understand your point. My point is that being human (i.e. having human DNA) doesn't necessarily make you a person, which is what determines what your rights are. Like others have said, someone who is alive and brain dead doesn't necessarily have the rights associated with personhood, even though they are certainly human. Same with a fetus (until a certain point) or a zygote.

midnight rain · 12-10-2012, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

I don't understand your point. My point is that being human (i.e. having human DNA) doesn't necessarily make you a person, which is what determines what your rights are. Like others have said, someone who is alive and brain dead doesn't necessarily have the rights associated with personhood, even though they are certainly human. Same with a fetus (until a certain point) or a zygote.

And I agreed with that. I just didn't always make it a point to specify all the exemptions

Where exactly are we disagreeing here?

The Batlord · 12-10-2012, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

And I agreed with that. I just didn't always make it a point to specify all the exemptions

Where exactly are we disagreeing here?

I thought that you were pro-life. If I'm wrong then what is your exact position?

midnight rain · 12-10-2012, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

I thought that you were pro-life. If I'm wrong then what is your exact position?

Pro-choice, I just wanted to clear some things up with Tore. My position is it's not human yet, so it's not entitled to human rights like "right to live" (the ones that don't encapsulate brain dead folks, and others in similar situations)