Spike*Spiegel

MURDER JUNKIE

Fair enough, like I said I was just curious

hiu

LOL. If you thought this was funny watch this.

http://captainoftheussinevitable.ytmnsfw.com/

Spike*Spiegel

DontRunMeOver

I know this is quite a way back in the thread, but this post in particular gave me the feeling that you've been talking about 'instiutionalised racism' and 'racism' as exactly the same thing.

Institutionalised racism is one type of racism.
All institutionalised racism is racism.
NOT all racism is institutionalised racism.

If you replaced the word 'racism' with the phrase 'instutionalised racism' in a lot of your posts, then I'd tend to agree with what you've said. As it stands, I think you're using quite a broad term within an extremely limited scope and essentially you're claiming a word means something different to what it actually means (i.e. you are wrong!)

Also, as far as institutionalised racism goes, I think its more pertinent to talk about discrimination from those with power against those without, but not necessarily by the majority against the minority. For example, during colonisation by European nations in India and Africa, the native people were the majority by far but the systems set up by the powerful colonial minority discriminated against them. That = a form of institutionalised racism.

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DontRunMeOver

Did the Irish not? Or the Italians? I don't know about this, but just from watching movies I'd gathered they've had pretty downtrodden times in the past. Or do you mean they 'do not', in that they are not oppressed at the moment?

That's when the guy uses the 'simplest definition' of racism as prejudice plus power and concludes that if you use this simple definition only whites in the US can be racist because only whites have power. That in itself is flawed because he doesn't define what he means by power. Would he say that the Black owners of hip-hop labels have no power? Would he say that basketball players commanding huge salaries have no power?

Even if you just work from that 'simplest definition' I could accept a conclusion that whites have more power and therefore are in a position to exert more racism (again, in its simplest defition) but even then it just wouldn't work the way he said because power is not in reality a case of those who have all and those who have none. Power is a sliding scale, with those who have more and those who have less and all to different extents and even then the power manifests itself in different ways.

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RHYMEFESTkillah

I made it pretty clear right there.

Since institutionalized racism can only truly exist on a national level, and I said we were discussing it as it applies to a nation, and ON a national level...

Citing examples of institutionalized racism...

What else should I have done to make it clear that I am talking about institutionalized racism?

Institutionalized racism works on a governmental level, it's pretty difficult for black owners of hip hop labels to have ANY governmental power.
Not exactly a good example on your part.

MURDER JUNKIE

I couldn't give a rat's ass about Kramer but I did love Stanley Spadowski:

[/QUOTE]

DontRunMeOver

You made it clear?? You really think you made it clear by saying "we are talking about institutionalised racism" when you were the only person who was talking about it?? I mean, seriously?? Who was the 'we'? You?? If you were the only one then I'm not sure your statement could be clear because it would also be wrong. Or were you using the royal 'we'?

Everybody else was talking about racism in the interpersonal level. They talked about it for pages and pages on this thread. It was appropriate for them to use the blanket term 'racism' because whichever form of racism they were talking about would fall into that category.

It was not appropriate (in a communication sense) for you to try take the broader term 'racism' and claim it only meant 'institutionalised racism', when other people wanted to talk about other forms as well.

You should have written institutionalised racism each and every time you meant institutionalised racism and I recommend you do so from now on. Its one specific term which describes a specific thing. If you're too lazy to be specific then you can't complain when other people misinterpret your overly vague statements.

When you say "we're talking about institutionalised racism", I can see that you were trying to pull everybody along to understand your definitions, so that they can understand the point you're trying to make... but why should they start accepting your own personal definitions, just to make it easier for you to say what you want? They don't have to and if you expect they will then you're setting yourself up for a fall.

Use the already accepted terms, which everyone will understand and then you can communicate what you want to say and actually get into a meaty discussion, not one where you spend the whole time trying to justify the misuse of a couple of words.

Governmental power? Oh, the word governmental must have been in the smallprint in that section. Or maybe it was written there with invisible ink?

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