Sneer

ok, but wasnt it human beings that were the predator more so then them being the prey? they'd work in groups to catch their prey thus pursue their desire. I do support hobbes theory of the natural human state, but i dont believe in his solution.

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DontRunMeOver

Every animal that survives is more predator than prey. Gazelles prey on grass. Humans were predator and prey, they may have been one more so than the other... they were still both.

It looks like there's something major missing between the two lines below:
1. Men are competitive, all have desires and fear death
2. Therefore, our natural state is one of war and conflict

This looks like it has been dodgily paraphased, because point 1 doesn't automatically lead to point 2 and yet there is a 'therefore' lurking around.

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MoonlitSunshine

I can see where you're coming from, it makes sense. If man's natural state was war and conflict with eachother, we'd have never survived this long, it was only with the extinction of anything that could successfully prey on us that we lost any sort of struggle to survive. With a lack of anything to fight against, we have an urge for violence which has to be taken out on something, and the only thing left is eachother.

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DontRunMeOver

That's exactly what I meant. As in, conflict between humans probably wasn't as common before but now that the natural enemies have been stamped out our natural response is to find another enemy and with no other target we make other people the enemy (plus technological and medicinal development could be viewed as a similar response against the 'enemies' disease, discomfort, strenuous work etc.).

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